Clinton's & Obama's Universal Health Care Plans

I can not believe how many people on here do not understand what their (both Clinton and Obama's) Universal Health care plans are.

I see people say I have good health care I do not want to see Universal Health Care. That makes you look bad because one it sounds selfish even though you probably are not and two because you do not understand that it will not effect you in anyway other than to lower you rates. Neither candidates plans will take your coverage away if you like it. Their plans are to add a NATIONAL group plan for everyone instead of having the luck of being in one at work. Due to this universal plan, everyone will benefit even if you opt to use a private plan because of competition. Competition will lower premiums. IF a private insurance company has to compete with the governments plan they will lower their rates so everyone benefits. The government plan will also eliminate pre-existing conditions which means other insurance companies will also follow otherwise they will loose business.

Again neither candidates plan will take away your current insurance it will simply lower your rates due to competition their plans will open.

Now people ask how is the government going to pay for this. At first they will have to have a budget and it will not be cheap but as years go on it will pay for itself because it is a GROUP plan. Our government will not pay much as the people on the plan will still be paying a premium albeit at a MUCH MUCH lower cost.

So then people ask well what is the difference between Obama's plan and Clinton's. It's quite simple actually. Obama does not want to make choosing a health plan, whether private or the government, manditory (other than for children) and Clinton wants to make it manditory. I personally am for manditory otherwise the competition element will not work. If you give people the choice many will do what they are doing now and not have insurance and if there are not a large amount of people on the government plan then there will not be a competive reason for private insurance companies to lower their rates or increase what they cover. If everyone made the smart choose everyone would already have an HSA.

So basically my point is that the democrates universal health care plans can only be good for the United States as there technically is no reason not to do it regardless if you are happy with the insurance you currenlty have. Its all based on competition as it is for any type of service. If there is a VERY low cost alternative to your private insurance than they will have no choice but to follow suit... its quite commons sense actually.

I am a computer programmer so I tend to look at everything logically and trust me this is the most logical way of solving our health care problem. The insurance companys today have way too much control of your health and that is a VERY huge problem.

I really like the fact there will no longer be previous existing conditions that insurance companys today love to take advantage of and not cover. This is one thing the insurance company the goverment picks must not have. They must cover everyone at the same rate regardless of any previous existing condition. Which means other companies will have to follow suit or loose customers.

Do you know that most of the money you pay in premiums is used by insurance companies today to pay for meetings, paper work, etc to figure out ways not to cover you. That is a very sad truth.

I know I've said this already, but I am for Clintons plan over Obama only because she wants to make it manditory. Remeber why car insurance in most states (if not all) is manditory... it worked and lowered everyone rates.

Now the republican's (conservatives) complaint is this is too much goverment control. Even though its not they will still say it. Can you imagine how our country would be if we did not have social security? Our economy would of failed and we probably would not be much better than many 3rd world countries. This is something goverment needs to do. This is what we pay them to do. Private insurance companies are only looking for profits and when such a large important service is only about profits and not for the well being of citizens there needs to be some form of goverment intervention and to me this is the smallest form of that. Again it is simply just to give us a choose of a universal group plan as if we work for the goverment and this is one of their benefits of choosing to work for them.

Oh there is also a concern that people will now have to wait for appointments longer now that everyone will have insurance as it is in Canada. While this may be true for certain tests, etc, you need to look at the whole picture. With more people getting treated for diseases, viruses, etc will be best for everyone because it will slow down the spread of such viruses. Right now if someone without insurance or even has insurance but at a high deductable will be reluctant to get treated which means they will simply just spread the virus around causing more to get sick. But if they got treated the chance to spread would be much less.

So again even if you are happy with your health insurance please try too look at the whole picture. Lets take the selfish issue out, and simply just ask wouldn't you rather have less chance of getting sick in the first place because now everyone regardless of their income level can get treatment before spreading?

This is exacly why Canada as a whole is more healthy than the USA. I can not find one Canadian who would tell you they would rather have USA's current health care plans.

In other words, it would be just like when Canad-eh's Ontario had OHIP [Ontario Health Insurance Plan]. I had to pay like $8 a month and even when I lived on the streets for a few years, it got paid before I ate.

Canad-eh is also healthier because 1. we have way higher standards/requirements to be met before allowing any type of medication loose on the public and 2. we don't write out RX's like candy and shove pills down our throats for every little thing that's wrong.

When I have a bad day, I don't run out to my doc and get a 6 month RX for Valium. I talk to a friend, read a book, watch a movie or sit down and have a coffee.

And maybe our -40 winters have something to do with us being healthier... we freeze those narstie germs right outta our bodies!!

DISCLAIMER:
I'm not saying that the States doesn't have any standards on med's or that everyone there takes med's on a whim. Today is so high paced and everything has to be fast, fast, fast and people want a quick fix to make them better. I think we're a little more laid back and probably drink too much beer over here to be able to take all that stuff

Thank you!!! After reading the entire other thread, I thad NO IDEA what it was, but you've made it very clear. If this is the plan, I'd vote for it!

TLCDad!!!!! OMG Thank You!


I started reading the other thread and my blood pressure just started rising out of control. I have not missed one debate and I have listened to Clinton and O'Bama intently and that thread was just . I didn't even make it past pg 3 and I used my self control to not go back and reply. I can't blame anyone I guess because I have a political obsession and others may not be "into" that and may only here the Charlie Brown teacher voice after awhile.

FYI: I'm not saying that I'm "better" then anyone here because I "got it". I just got it I guess and reading the thread I thought "didn't they listen?".

Thank you very much, I have heard about UHC but haven't had time to devote myself to debates and such

You explained it very well, if it's simply a matter of me signing up for a plan as if the government was my employer....I'm there.

Oh so simple, isn't it? Why b/c our government now runs things so efficiently that they would be able to handle all the complex nuances of the medical system? No, I don't trust that our govt would do it correctly. Insurance companies costs go down, drug companies costs skyrocket as do our taxes. We may not see it immediately, but they will. Just like in my husband's work. Joe blow who has kidney trouble in line for a transplant, or the other guy with HIV who is on a million different meds makes the insurance rate for the employees outrageous. Just think if America is considered a "Group" insurance how many people in our "group" have cancer, are obese, have various different diseases and illnesses and guess what? You think we will keep the same level of care? NO!! Who is going to pay for that??? Who is going to pay for this same quality of care? We are!!! In double, in triple amounts. So you can't tell me that our quality of care will not go down b/c the govt is going to try and cut corners every which way they know how. You wanted to give social security as an example. Social security is in so much trouble that it won't be around by the time I need it. Canada's govt might be able to run things just fine...I don't know and I don't care. I don't live there. I live here and I know that the American govt would screw it up. And I live on the Mexico border. What's going to keep all the illegal aliens (which is already a huge problem) from coming here and receiving all of our other benefits. They already get enough without having to pay taxes. Whoopeeee!!! That's just begging them to come here if you ask me.

Call me selfish all you want. My husband works hard for what he makes and enough of it already goes to the govt...enough of it that we will never see put to good use. I don't opt for a healthcare system that will go down the tubes.

And fwiw, this is coming from someone who NEVER goes to the doctor. My kids have never had a sick visit, just well visits. I don't take them to the dr everytime they sniffle. Nor do my husband and I go. We also don't take meds unless we absolutely need them. I really don't get that whole argument. It's not about waiting for an appt. It's about the quality of the healthcare and the training that our doctors receive. All of that will be gone. We have some of the best doctors and medical advancements in the world. Why would anyone want to chance giving that up???

WOW! It sounds wonderful like a bed of clouds and a blanket of roses ....BUT #1) I do not buy into anything the government is selling anymore. #2) I do not believe they have the right to mandate what I do with any part of my money when I am NOT receiving any of it fom them. #3) There is no way absolutely NOWAY that this too will not turn into a welfare/middle class issue.Q: If you can't afford to feed yourself now-how are you to pay for healthcare?A: You won't have to because the working/middle class will end up footing the bill in someway or another. We will pay a premium just enough higher to cover those who can't/won't do it themselves... AND now the added bonus of, according to Hil's plan, they (WE) will be mandated to do so.....Sorry but until I see it work fairly I will NOT support big brother having any say in my personal checking account or what I decide to be in the best intrest of my family!

I am quite interested on how you got the insurance companies point of view on this and how you think it will be better. I ask because in our state they are trying to go with a UHC for our state alone. I work for insurance lobbyists and I know the jist of what is going on it our state. I don't know about other states, but our insurance companies are not quite happy with the "UHC" for our state and many believe it would be a complete disaster.

I am also curious how you got the information on where most of our premiums go towards -- what the insurance companies use that money for.

While I know your post is basically a slam at me for giving my point of view that's fine. Being that I am seeing first hand how it's affecting our state and how our state can't fund the program well I'll stick with my view. I believe there is one other state, Massachusetts maybe (I recall one of our lobbyists here in the office talking about it) how they've had a similar UHC plan and it was a disaster.

I agree with you..

However I am gona stay out of it and zip my lips shut.

I just have one question. If you don't agree w/UHC then what is your alternative? WHAT plan do you have that will make it better???

Like it or not we're going to HAVE to trust SOMEBODY to fix this! I understand people w/insurance that they've worked hard for don't want to "pay" for the rest of us. But what we have currently ISN'T working. You can't bury your head in the sand forever. YOUR premiums are just going to go up and up too. We need to fix this for ALL of us...

Well for me the alternative would be not to jump into something that even those proposing it don't completely know how it works. Just because we need a fix, doesn't mean we should go 1/2 *** about it, right?

Alternatives would be to find out why meds cost so much, why premiums are so high, etc, etc, etc. And try to regulate them, but again that would need to be studied more before you go through with something.

Seriously, our country must not have thought the welfare program out very well because look at it.

The idea of UHC is great. But the same people who have made a mess out of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc etc etc are going to be running this. When they can clean up the programs that we do have running I'll have more faith in the idea.

Again the government will start a group plan. You will not have to pick it you can stay with the insurance company you have and just enjoy the future lower premiums from competition to the governments group plan.

That madate is simple, just like car insurance, if you do not pick either the government plan or another insurance company you will pay a fine. I am for this only for the simple logical fact when everyone is on some form of health insurance everyones rates will go down.

And this was not mean't to offend anyone. I just saw so many posts that people did not really understand what the USA plan was. The government will not really be controling you they will just be offered a group plan that the uninsured and the unlucky people who do not have a large company group health plan.

Some people thought they will lose the great coverage they have. I just wanted to make sure they know, you will not. This will not effect you expect with the more than likely lower costs you (or at least the company you work for) will enjoy.

Um, they aren't controlling us? How are they going to offer this plan if they aren't going to tax me PLUS I then have the privelege of still paying my own premiums for my regular insurance?????

How is our premiums going to go down??? If more people go with the government program and not with private insurance companies that means less business for insurance, which means higher premiums.

Um, they aren't controlling us? How are they going to offer this plan if they aren't going to tax me PLUS I then have the privelege of still paying my own premiums for my regular insurance?????

How is our premiums going to go down??? If more people go with the government program and not with private insurance companies that means less business for insurance, which means higher premiums.

Just like care insurance... more competition will bring premiums down. If people can go on the government plan at this rate, we best give some incentive to keep them on our plan - which means obviously lower rates. Trust me you think insurance companys do not have huge profits?

Wouldn't they want to lower them then to attract more business to their company?

I don't pretend to understand the tip of the iceberg here....but if it's basically a matter of the govt choosing, say three insurance companies, and setting up a "group" I can choose to join just as if it was my employer, I don't see how thats a bad thing.

Wouldn't they want to lower them then to attract more business to their company?

I don't pretend to understand the tip of the iceberg here....but if it's basically a matter of the govt choosing, say three insurance companies, and setting up a "group" I can choose to join just as if it was my employer, I don't see how thats a bad thing.

Exactly.

Wouldn't they want to lower them then to attract more business to their company?

I don't pretend to understand the tip of the iceberg here....but if it's basically a matter of the govt choosing, say three insurance companies, and setting up a "group" I can choose to join just as if it was my employer, I don't see how thats a bad thing.

I agree... but don't forget the premiums are going to be based on income. So lower income won't pay anything... someone is going to have to pay more to make up for that. I am not saying I am against it, it sounds good in theory. But I want to see the numbers and details on how the plan is going to work before I make up my mind. All that I have heard so far are theories and how they see the "big picture".

Now be prepare because private insurance companys are going to have lobbyists running around stating that this is such a bad plan and even probably making up scare tactics because yes they are going to definitely loose some profits at first especially for the given fact the will have to start accepting pre-existing conditions.

Does the government offer car insurance though?

No but they (state gov't) force you to have it if you want a car. As soon as that happened millions of people had to buy insurance which in turn over time insurance companies were able to lower rates because the mass number of customers.

Government just needs to get involved here because health insurance is so high right now that forcing insurance is almost impossible so they need to start a group plan for the citizens that are not able to get into a group plan (myself included).

I am going to do nothing but at that comment.

BTW, I may "work" for them, but I by no means think what they do sometimes is right. I only state the truth I see. If you were around it first hand, maybe you would too.

It's not the same. People have to have car insurance, but the government isn't offering it. There is no government funded car insurance. It's apples and oranges.

I am going to do nothing but at that comment.

BTW, I may "work" for them, but I by no means think what they do sometimes is right. I only state the truth I see. If you were around it first hand, maybe you would too.

I do not understand what does that suppose to mean? You think insurance companies want this plan when they make so much profit right now? Of course not. These "special interests" is what is ruining this country.