HOw can K not be mandatory?

Is kindergarten mandatory where you live? It's not here, and I don't see how kids can go into 1st grade without this preperation. One of the neighbors didn't send their DD to Kindergarten and she is struggling in 1st grade. She went in barely knowing her ABC's, could count to only 10, and certainly didn't read. She is so far behind that I feel bad her. If she had gone to K or if her parents had worked with her, she would be fine. Given everything that is now expected in 1st grade, how can K not be mandatory?

It's mandatory here. At least I am pretty sure it is, I've never heard of anyone not sending their child to Kindergarten unless they were homeschooling. Even if it weren't mandatory, I'd still send Ashley.

yup, its mandatory here, but preschool isn't. If a child goes into Kinder without going to preschool, they usually start out already behind the others

It is here also in NJ

It's mandatory here too. Although, I will say, Tanner learned nothing in K that he didn't know at 3! He was very bored which I think set him off on the wrong taste in his mouth regarding school. In our area, they want kids to know they're abc's & be able to count to 20 and know their shapes before starting KINDERGARTEN. But you know..it seems they spent all year doing those things. so I don't know?!?!

I do think K is very important b/c it gives them a chance to be socialized before the real learning begins!

Well, I knew Indiana was backwards in a lot of things

It's not mandatory here in Vt either. It is mandatory to send them to school by their sixth birthday. But depending on the screeening is wher ethey are placed. Most kindergartens aren't teaching ABC and 123 at least not here, the are just socializing kids. Kids here are still learnign tehalphabet in first grade. I remember when I was student teaching we were teachign teh first grade class the same things that Cameron knew when he was 2. Counting to 20 the letters adn sounds they made, 12 basic colors and shapes. The test early in first grade to see which of these things they knwo and what they need to work on. It might be differnt now, this was 4 years ago but dont think it has changed that much. Depending on teh age cutoff I may homeschool for grade K (if not all school years) and have him start first grade rather than go to public school for K btu we'll see when the time comes

It's not mandatory in NYS. But Most if not all parents send there kids. I really thought it wasn't mandatory throughout the US. I know I sent my kids to a private school and since we both worked the tuition for K was tax deductable like daycare costs.

it is DEFINITLY mandatory here you have to know how to count to 100 before you can go

This is ridiculous. I think that kids should go to school based on their readyness...not their age.

Here, kids start kindergarden (which is mandatory) at 5. Where we used to live, it was 4. They learn their numbers, their letters, shapes, colors...basic crap that my kids already KNOW! So they're going to waste a whole year being bored, just because I spend more time with my kids showing them stuff than the average parent. My kids are going to private school - and the only reason is because the private school takes the kids in at 4, and they have extra stuff,like spanish instead of english, music lessons etc....

Sorry - I don't mean to offend anyone here.... I really don't. But if by 5 years old, the kid doesn't know the letters or numbers at least to 10 - unless the child is mentally handicapped in any way - or has a learning disability - there is a PROBLEM, and it's not with the child.

Zach can't read - but he can recgnize letters. Emilie can't say her whole alphabet properly - but she knows most of it - and she's not yet 2. I'm not saying my kids are advanced - but let's face it - if they know this stuff now - what will they have left to learn in K? or in first grade for that matter? They socialize great - say their pleases and thankyous without being promted too much... they ask for things nicely, they wash their hands befor eating and after the bathroom without being reminded too often... I'm sure by this summer Zach ewill be able to write his name a read a bit - he recognizes a few words, like his own name and that of his sisters, mom and dad... and he can write already write a few letters. He knows a few basic addition answers... frig... he'll skip right to grade 3 at 4 years old!!!!

sorry again if I offended anyone - not my intention... i just don't like the fact that my kids will be held behind their potential just to conform to the 'norm'.

In Az, school is compulsory (required by law) after the child's sixth birthday. Which means that kindergarten is not required. If we find out about a child who is not in school and should be, we do send the police, however, there are many times when we don't find out. I just got a kindergartener this week who just started school for the first time. School started the second week of August.

I teach way way way more than socialization in kindergarten. But socialization is important- so is the idea that when an adult calls you, you shouldn't run away from the teachers or principal ( I have a little boy that does this- can you tell it's driving me nuts! ). My students are expected to be reading by the time they leave- but to do that we do work on letters and their sounds, and numbers/counting to 20. So far we've studied together about 12 letters and their corresponding sounds (although during writing time the kids break apart the words they want to write and have to identify the letter that makes the sound, so they're actually learning more than that). There are many that know more, and others (about 1/4 of my class) that haven't really caught on to the whole "letter thing" yet. It's just their developmental stage- quite common at 5. Which doesn't mean to say that they can't or don't learn a lot of letters at 5, just that it can be common for some of them to learn them slower, because they just aren't ready developmentally for that concept. Most (but not all) of those kids tend to catch on in first grade. In other countries- like New Zealand, they don't even teach literacy until the child is 7 or 8. And they have the highest literacy rates in the world.

What does amaze me though is that Jaci can count to 13 at 3, but I get kids that can't count to 10 in whatever language they speak. And we didn't drill her, just counted all the time when we did stuff.

YIKES!!!!!! I guess I am a bad parent because Jack is almost 18 months and can't even talk yet.......................I don't think it is my fault that he doesn't. I spend all sorts of time with him, but I am not going to push learning on him at his tender age. When he shows interest with a book, we go thru the book together. SImple stuff I suppose

If Emilie is that smart before 2 she should skip a few grades.......................

I am not starting anything either - PROMISE. But saying that you spend more time with your kids than the average parent is rather harsh.....

YIKES!!!!!! I guess I am a bad parent because Jack is almost 18 months and can't even talk yet.......................I don't think it is my fault that he doesn't. I spend all sorts of time with him, but I am not going to push learning on him at his tender age. When he shows interest with a book, we go thru the book together. SImple stuff I suppose

If Emilie is that smart before 2 she should skip a few grades.......................

I am not starting anything either - PROMISE. But saying that you spend more time with your kids than the average parent is rather harsh.....

ITA with you Jen---I spend lots of time with Tripp also. VERY HARSH words Rocky you should watch your tone

Well I feel there are alot of different ways parents teach children. And I also think there are children whose parents don't know how to teach or have no education of thier own. Those children must go to school at 5 whether they can count to 10 or not.

When my kids went to school we were given a list of things they needed to accomplish for their safety and to make the change easier. Things like name, address, phone number for safety. Writing name numbers and letters for learning.

I am a full time working mother of 4..and he may not have all the ATTENTION other kids get. But when I do spend my time with him..and at that age sitting and working with him and teaching him.. he got all my attention. Not just me being burnt out and tired. Which is what I try to accomplish in my house. For me it is quality not always quanity.


Tanner changed alot that year of Kindergarten. It wasn't about ABC and 123's learning simple stuff he already knew. He learned alot about Tanner. About what he liked and disliked. He gained some independence away from his family and became his own person who was proud of his accomplishment. He learned a routine and a work ethic. He made friends and learned how to get along with children who a different, in color, in sex, maybe even with disabilites. These were the things he needed to learn more than ABC's that he in fact already knew.

He did start his foundation for the rest of his skills in kindergarten. He liked it.. he did well. He didn't struggle because he knew alot already.. that didn't make MY child better than someone else's child who maybe struggled. I was glad he went to school with kids that could write better than him because it gave him something to work toward.. and when he seen someone struggling with something he already knew.. he gave him the chance to help someone understand..and it taught him compassion. His teachers have all said he was and is the first to help someone who needs it. He learned that here at home and school.

Education is the one of the most important thing in the house. But let me tell you.. my husbands Mother.. My MIL can't read or write. She was never taught as a child. They lived on a farm and worked even in Kindergarten. When my husband went to school.. he didn't know his ABC because his mother didn't.. but he still had a right to be taught and learn.. whether he was 5 or 6 or 7.. His mother wanted better for her kids than she had..and every child she had graduated.. that is her single proudest moment. So.. not knowing all that by 5..may not be the childs fault.. but... it may not be something that can be helped. Just because the children don't know everything doesn't mean the parents are lazy or spend no time with their children.

VERY VERY WELL SAID MEL!!!!

Wow, Interesting turn to this thread.

Rocky, I would recommend homeschooling if you really feel that way. But school, kindergarten in particular does not really concentrate on the ABC's and 123's as has already been pointed out. What it does help with is socialization in large groups, and that is something that we all learn as we go thru life.

Because of some issues, our dd had some testing done when she was 4. It turned out that her IQ is off the chart well over 160-180. She learns many tasks quickly and was reading chapter books before entering kindergarten. She enjoys reading the encyclopedia and the dictionary. (she is 8) We have struggled with being certain she is continually challenged and that she doesn't get bored. Her teachers have been great with keeping her mentally challenged and still getting her the social skills she needs. The thing is the sociallization that the kids get is much, much more than the things you listed like "say their pleases and thankyous without being promted too much... they ask for things nicely, they wash their hands befor eating and after the bathroom without being reminded too often..." There are so many things to get out of the educational experience and as long as you stay involved and on top of things they will not be 'held back'. I know my daughter is not.

I think this is very harsh. I may be a working mom and not be able to spend time with Brooke teaching her things every minute, but we spend time playing and working on numbers, letters, shapes, etc. every day. Just because she is not ready to learn it all yet does not make me a bad parent.

Amymom, congrats on having such a smart dd! Speaking from experience (I have an above average IQ, but not as high as hers), keeping her interested will be key. I was frequently "bored" in school because I knew the material already and would get in trouble for not paying attention.


And to respond to the original question, K is not mandatory here. But in a study they published last year out of 170 some (I don't remember the exact #) 1st graders all but 2 had attended K.

They meay seem harsh... but they'renot meant to offend. I realize that every chid has a different learning rate, it doesn't mean the child is stupid or that the parent doesn't do anything.

From MY experience (note the 'my'), going places like the doctor's office, or the grocery store, or even just for a walk with the kids.... I see parents take their kids out, and spend half the time telling them to be quiet, not to yell, and they say stuff like 'mommy's talking to daddy, wait your turn' or things like that.... and it really bugs me when the kids are acting up because the parents won't pay attention to them because they're concentrating on something else. When I take my kids to the doctor's office, I grab whatever magazine they have, and point stupid stuff out - people's face? fine - we work on the facial body parts. Celeb mags? fine - what color is the dress? the hair? count the people around her...

I just see a lot of parents doing their own thing while their kids are whining for attention. That just really bugs me. I'm not saying that any of you are bad parents, or that any of your kids are behind.

I'm writing from personal experience. I went to K already konwing how to read... spent most of that year in a corner with books while the other kids were being taught other stuff. I also skipped first grade, and almost skipped 3rd grade, but I was already about 18 months (average) younger than everyone else because of skipping 1st grade, my mom didn't want to make that 2.5 years younger than everyone else. I got my IQ tested at 8 - it was 164. Although I was 'smart', I was bored... especially through high school.

I never focused on 'teaching' my kids stuff....and I'm generally a working mom too - so I too spent quality time versus quantity time.

I didn't originally post here to have to come back later and defend my opinion.



yup, MY OPINION.... oh well, that's all it is anyways. Take it or leave it.


This post has been edited by ZEN Mommy on Nov 25 2005, 08:17 AM

Rocky, don't you think that K was a great stepping stone into grade 1, as far as being with other children and setting the pace for grade 1???

PERSONALLY, no, not really. Like I said - I spent most of my time apart from the others, because I could already read, knew most of the stuff they were teaching....although I was always inc;uded in story time, art time, music time etc... it was hard to take interest, and therefore hard to forge good friendships - because while another kid wanted to be read to, I wanted to read. Or a kid wanted me to make a puzzle with him/her - I would do it on my own and the other kid got lkike 3 pieces in - so they didnt want to do stuff with me because I always finished fast... lolso most of my socialisation was done extra-curricular - my parentsa put me in all kinds of classes - swimming, ballet, piano, gymnastics... and later, violin, karate and a few others

I went from K to Grade 1, only to spend 2 weeks before being shoved up to 2nd grade.

I don't want my kids to be like I was.... I'd like them to be able to continue learning what they want to and can - not be forced to wait because the curriculum doesn't have anything new until the next grade, and not be easily bored by people...

We love to defend ourselves.....that is why I am asking you this - really, it is all in fun.

Will your children go to K Rocky??

it's all good, I don't mind answering questions on what i've posted.... it just sucks that opinions can't be said without someone getting in a huff about it... but that's always going to happen, right?? lol

of course I HAVE to defend my opinion...can't have people thinking I'm some sort of self-righteous, haughty creep..... lol

jk

i know it's all in good fun - I enjoy debating nicely!

Because it's mandatory, yes. If they can have a better experience than I did, bonus.