Educating your children

Just curious, I am not sure what I will do when Ashley is of age.

DH and I are in a debate about this. I went to an alternative school (not your traditional private school, but it wasn't a public school); DH went to public school, and even though school was not a particularly positive experience for him---he dropped out and later got his GED---he favors public school. It's ironic actually. Because he grew up fairly well off, he has this fear of being elitist. Since I grew up on welfare, AFDC and food stamps, I totally lack any fear of being elitist. I just want my child to have a supportive environment to learn in. We have excellent public schools in the city I live in, so I'm not worried if we go that route. There is also an "open" school, which is run like the alternative school I attended, but is larger and is part of the public school system, and you have to be in a lottery to get in unless your older sibling attended. There are also a good number of charter schools in our area. So we'll have a lot of good choices when the time comes.

not to sure yet, I wont be able to home school unless things change drastically, but I am not sure where she will go to scholl, it depends on where we buy our next home and what the schools are like as to public or privet, but I would like for her to exprience going to school, just dont know where it will be.

We live right by one of the best public elementary schools in our town AND they have 3K and 4K preschool. Very exciting.

I'm especially excited about not having to pay over a grand a month for childcare anymore after Bailey turns 3.

Florida public schools are rated at about 48th in the country... unless we move into a MUCH nicer area it doesn't look good for us. We hope to move out of the state soon, and then we'll take the school systems into GREAT consideration. I'd like to send her to public, but will send her to private if we are still in this area.

Kwym about Fla schools, Amy. My parents are teachers, and my mom was horrified when my brother moved there. She said when students transfer to her school in NJ, she said they are typically one year behind in the curriculum. My girlfriend moved to Fla for one year, and came back for the same reason.
But my mom also says that in homes where education is a real priority, kids will do well regardless of their circumstances.
And while most kids I know that are homeschooled are bright and well adjusted, I have a bias against homeschooling in general. I believe most of the work in the elementary years is social rather than academic, and despite well intentioned efforts by homeschooling parents to create opportunities for interactions with other kids, it is often too controlled and contrived. I mean, I can't see a homeschooling parent deliberately forcing her child to hang out with a child they don't get along with. And yet, this is an invaluable part of the schoolyard experience- IF IT IS HANDLED WELL. Learning to adapt and compensate in less than optimal conditions is a critical part of growing up.

We homeschool and I love it! I went to a private school and I liked it but we no longer have any in our area that we would send our kids to, not to mention the fact we couldn't afford it (c'mon school vouchers!). Dh went to public school (the same ones our kids would go to) and while he didn't hate it he does not want our children going there. We want to be in control of what our children are learning-meaning I want them to learn what is relevant-not some of the ridiculous stuff that public schools have decided is necessary for kids to know. I consider myself fortunate that I am able to stay home and teach my kids. We have to give some things up to be able to do that but that's ok. I think it's well worth it.

Please don't let this turn into a debate. My kids go to public school. While it might not be the best in the world, it works for us. I applaude the moms who home-school. That's great! I've gone back and forth over this, and to me public is better for our kids. There are no private schools around here. I don't know how I would have time to home-school. I do work at home, nothing glorious, but it's money. Yes, I do feel guilty sometimes sending them to public school. Sometimes I think I could do better, but I don't know.

Sorry but I have to take offense at this. My daughter is homeschooled (this will be her second year) and she has as many friends and is as well adjusted as the next child. She has her church friends (basically the only kind I had my whole life) and she has her activities during the week that she has requested to go to. She does have other friends who are homeschooled and I think that is great but I don't force her to play with them. She is not afraid to go up to other children and introduce herself when we are at the playground. I haven't tried to "create" any opportunites for her-she tends to create them for herself. You say that most of the homeschooled kids that you know are bright and well adjusted so that gives me reason to believe that your argument is unfounded and uncalled for. I totally agree that the elementary years are more social than anything but I don't believe that you have to send your kids to school in order for them to attain that. JMO.

Edited to say- I am not trying to turn this into a debate. In both of my posts I have simply stated my opinion. I have no problems with parents sending their kids to public school, in fact I have considered it myself. Homeschooling is just the best option for our family.

This post has been edited by 3littleladies on Aug 9 2004, 07:26 AM

I don't think there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, as long as it's respectful and civilized, as I always try to be. I certainly don't want to offend anyone with my views. But I also don't think we need to be so afraid to exchange ideas, opinions with each other, even if we don't always agree.
It's why I continue to come here. I've come to realize that my political views in particular are wayyyyyyyyyyy out of step with many moms here, and sometimes it makes me uncomfortable. But I also don't want to surround myself with people who only think as I do.
For example, Mommy2Ashley and I couldn't possibly be more different from a political perspective, and yet, I've come to value her friendship, support, advice, and opinions.
It's ok to disagree. We can all learn from each other in the process.

And btw- to continue the conversation if you are so inclined, I see your kids are still relatively young yet. I think you may find that as kids get older, their socializing needs/interactions may become more complex.
In the meantime, I'm glad it's working for you, and I'm sure you're doing an excellent job. I admire your devotion to your children.

You are absolutely right-it very well may. I hope when and if that time comes I will be able to find a way to deal with it that works to everyone's liking. It probably won't include sending them to school though as I truly believe in the long run my kids are better off at home.

well here comes one of my observations I do admire anyone who had the time and patience to homeschool there child, I know I could not do it, I would slack off to much and my childs education would suffer, so for us weither public or private it will work best for us. I do plan on helping her with her school work, it will be fun to learn what I did not and to re-learn things that I have forgotten.

I also know a few home schooled kids....well some are adults now, all of them are very bright and well adjusted, some of the ones I knew went on to college they said the first year was the hardest beacause they simply were not pre-paired, not accidemically but socialy, they had no idea what to expect in that kind of learning enviroment. So I ask the girl do you regret being homeschooled? She said for the most part no but she wishes she could have gone to some High School to be better pre-paired for college.

We have actually talked about this and when the time comes will probably give our kids the option of going to high school. Another option is letting them take part-time classes at the high school, something I am personally interested in as I think they would learn more about ,oh say biology, in the classroom than at my dining room table. My youngest brother was homeschooled and decided to try going to high school his sophomore year and just didn't like it but now that he is in college is doing very well. I guess it just depends on the person.

Edited to say-I'm sorry if I am being too opinionated about this. Since I am homeschooling (and seem to be the only one on this board who is) I feel the need to let everyone know why I am doing it and why I feel the way I do. This is something I feel very strongly about for my family, but I am in no way criticizing those who feel differently, just as I would hope everyone would do the same for me.

This post has been edited by 3littleladies on Aug 9 2004, 09:07 AM

Here is my point of view since I was home schooled most of my life... I'm not going to college not a regular college anyway, and the biggest reason for that is because I feel I'm not smart enough and the only reason for that is because my mom wasn't very disciplined, and they didn't have the money to send me to sylvan to get what I wasn't getting at home if she had done that I would have been fine because she was a LOT like me when it came to math not good at it! My brother on the other hand gets it and is REALLY good at it my mom doesn't even have to try to understand it because he does! SO really it depends on the child I was ALWAYS involved in something social so that was never a problem for me on the other hand other children may have problems with it. It depends on the child and the parents, the parents have to listen to the child if they want to go to school you need to find a good school and let them go because if they don't get what they need whether it be social or educational then they could feel regret for the rest of their lives. So please don't pretend to know anything about home schooled children until you have been there.

Edited to say: and please don't get mad at me lol I didn't say all this to upset anyone I promise!!!!

This post has been edited by alyssa'smommy on Aug 9 2004, 09:56 AM

I wasn't home schooled, but my high school was parent run with 3 full time teachers, and enrollment was so low at one point that there were only 11 students in our school. I was able to focus on subjects I enjoyed more thoroughly and in depth than I might have been able to do at a public school. We didn't have sports or a music program, though, and I feel I missed out on the chance to play music in a large group or be on a sports team and learn to play a sport well. We had written evaluations and we didn't have grades, although you would get only partial credit for a class if you didn't complete your work. I was able to do independent study, like an internship, at a magazine, and I credit that experience for leading to my work in the publishing industry now. On the whole, I'm grateful that my mom chose alternative schools for me from 1st grade on, even knowing what I missed out on. It was harder for kids coming into our school as teenagers from the public school system, though. They had difficulty adapting to being self-directed. Making the switch from small alternative school to public education (which I did when I went to college) seemed easy academically. I was surprised at how well I did in my freshman year, not knowing how I would compare and never having received a grade in my life. But I was used to being self-directed, studying, being prepared for class and taking notes, so I did well. But socially, it's true---I was intimidated. I was afraid to talk in class throughout college, absolutely terrified! A typical classroom would be the size of my whole school, maybe more. I didn't get to know very many students at all, and maintained more friendships with professors than with classmates after graduating.

I am a public school teacher and I will send Jason to public school. The schools in my town are new and very good. They have climate control (sounds trivial, but it is important to be comfortable while learning), have tons of computers and are very hands on, which goes along with my philosophy of education. The elementary school that Jay will attend is right around the corner from my neighborhood. The middle school is beautiful. I did my student teaching in the school that Jay will attend for 6-8th grade.

In some private schools, the teachers don't have to be certified, they just have to be an expret in their field. I know this because my dad worked as a teacher in my HS, and he is not a certified teacher. He was a retired pharmacist and was hired as a science teacher, he is also a deacon in the catholic church and also worked as a religion teacher.

I went to catholic HS, but knowing that now, I wouldn't send Jay there.

My Children go to a Catholic School. It's exactly the same as the Public School System, it's not private.

I couldn't agree with you more... I enjoy hearing (and sometimes debating) both sides of important issues. I don't mean to start topics that cause conflict, but I do like to be challenged on important topics like education and politics. I think it is wonderful that the members here are mature enough to debate issues without attacking the person with the opposing view. Some of our conversations have really opened my eyes to a different point of view.

I just wanted to add that I hope I haven't made you feel uncomfortable with some of my posts in the political discussions. I actually thought I was the person that was in the minority here, even DH has different political views than myself. We seldom vote for the same people. But, I apologize if I made you or anyone else feel uncomfortable.

Now, back to what this thread is about.... Wow, you all have really given me some things to think about. I am still not sure what I will do when it is time to send Ashley to school, I see the pros and cons of all options.

My oldest daughter started out in preK and Kindergarten in private school, I liked it although they were a bit too strict with the kids. The tuition for 1st grade went up soo much we could not afford to keep her there, we moved to a area that had A rated schools and she has been there several years and we are happy with the school, I volunteer there alot, since I have 2 days during the week that I dont work, Im very involved in what she is being taught.

I went to public school in Detroit which most people would turn there noses up at.
I have friends that went to private schools are their life I dont feel they are smarter or better then me, most of them were wild cause they were so strict in school...

Its all a matter of what will work for your family and your children.

I dont really think there is the right way to do things and where they should go, as long as they are learning that is what matters.

I voted "other". I would LOVE to homeschool, but that's entirely not possible. Since Kylie was born after the cut-off of September 1st she would have to wait to go to school til she's almost 6 instead of 5. Dh and I both started school at 4 years old because our bday were right after the cut-off but it was possible then. So we both feel that if Kylie is ready at 5 years old we may send her to a private school for kindergarten then transfer her into our local school district to start first grade. We both really want her to go to the same school for her entire school years but we don't think she should have to wait til she's 6 if she's ready at 5. We are tossing up some ideas. We may send her to a Montissouri (sp?) school for kindergarten.

DH thinks I should lobby the school board to allow children to be tested and if they are ready they should be able to go to school. Not sure if I have that in me to take on that fight. It won't be an easy task of lobbying that's for sure. I know the school board president well and he said he wouldn't budge.

Otherwise the rest of her schooling will be in our local district. We both went to school in this district and purposely planted ourselves in the district so Kylie could go to school here. Her teachers will be most of the people we went to highschool with which is kinda cool!

Little word to the wise, Karen, on your idea about lobbying the school district to reconsider their enrollment age. SAVE YOUR ENERGY!!!
In my experience, all public schools have one thing in common: bureaucracy. And what that means to you as a parent is that change, ANY change is excruciatingly slowwwwww. Even if they did agree to revisit the age requirements,(which I believe they wouldn't ), they'd have to form commitees to discuss it ad nauseum, then they'd have to consult with the teachers' union, then the board, yada yada yada. In the meanwhile, Kylie will be driving by then.
I would redirect your energy to Kylie's particular needs. I think the idea of sending her to a montessori school for a year is a good one. Kids at that age have very little difficulty moving around, it's when they get older that they don't want to change schools. My kids had GREAT experiences with a Montessori preschool, it's very child centered and yet provides enough structure that prepares kids for public school later on.
When my kids were little, I was full of ideas and energy about how I wanted their education to be. I've since learned that rather than trying to change the entire school, it's more fruitful to make a relationship with the individual teachers and focus on your child's particular needs.

I totally forgot about the September 1 cut-off date! I am already afraid that Ashley will be bored in school but I think she needs the social interaction more than anything. Academically, she already knows many of the things that are taught in kindergarten (alphabet, colors, numbers, shapes, sorting, etc), but she isn't around other kids on a regular basis. I do plan to put her in pre-school, but I didn't think about the fact that she would have to wait until she is 6 to go to Kindergarten.

We've discussed this in our family and even though we live in Florida, we will probably send Katherine to public school. We are adamant about volunteering at the school and knowing the teachers and what is going on though & we will do everything we can to enhance what is being focused on in the school.

I attended middle school in San Francisco and started high school in Florida. I was in honors classes and they were still covering things that I'd learned in 7th & 8th grade. It was not challenging, uncomfortable and frankly, awful. I transferred to another school that was public but different. There were only about 10 students per class, lots of art and music courses and they let you really focus on what you enjoyed. You still had to take the basics, but it was different. By the time I got in, 11th grade, I'd had enough of HS though and I dropped out, got my GED & started taking classes at the community college. Not something that I'm proud of, but I did continue my education and get a BS. I love learning it's just that the HS here was so bad socially and academically. Probably didn't help that I was a punk rocker in a school full of rednecks! LOL

I think that my experiences will help me to look out for problems that K may have with school & hopefully we will be able to nip them in the bud. I plan to be involved and supportive of her issues. If it appears that she is not meeting her potential, then we will re-think the issue & come up with something that works for our family.

One side note: the worst kids I knew in HS...the druggies, the drinkers, partiers, fighters etc went to the christian school or the private school. So although their academics may be better (I've never really researched that), they don't have my vote at all for the social aspect at all.

One more side note: I've read that Yale and Harvard are actually seeking out Home schooled students for enrollment. Interesting. I've not ruled it out but I'm just not sure I have the energy to devote to homeschooling full-time. We shall see...

Thanks, you are right. I still *may* do it. Dh thinks one day I should run for school board. Who knows maybe I will once Kylie is in school. I still believe that they should have a system in place that if a parent wants their children tested to start early they should. I know that means it would be a test at the parent's expense but that's fine, that's why it would be voluntary. I know then you get into the issue of those who can't afford it and it's not fair, etc. Not sure what to do there, have to think on that one, but our school district is a rich kid's district. Not that Kylie is by any means but most of the kids that go to school there live in $300k to $500k homes. About 25% of us live in regular to farm type homes, but even the farmers out here are rich. So there isn't much low income families out this way.

One reason we wanted to send her at 5 if she's ready is because we want her to go to preschool at 3 for social interaction with other kids her age. But if we did that and let her wait to go to K at 6 she would be in PreK for 3 years and the school won't allow that and I think she'd eventually get bored.

My SIL has her kids in Montessouri and loves it. I'm not a fan of private schools but I need to put that aside for the sake of what's best for Kylie. Montessouri might be that for Kylie. Just got to convince DH that the pricetag is worth it, lol.

Who knows things might change by the time she is ready .

That's not all we teach in Kinder! We work with the child's individual needs, and if Ashley is ready to start reading, then we work on that. We also work on addition and subtraction concepts (and the actual writing of problems if they are ready for it) and how to write stories. A good school will be child centered, and have teachers that really look at the individual needs of a child. You can tell this right away just be talking to or observing the teachers.

P.s. To all- Sept 1 isn't some arbitrary date that we just picked to make people mad. The majority of time, children born past that point aren't socially ready for kinder. I had a child (of a colleague) that tested to get into kinder a year early, and while academically she was ready, emotionally and socially she wasn't. She did ok, but this will have lasting effects for her. There are also reasons why some things are so difficult to change, a "buracracy" some have called it. We have an obligation to be fair to ALL parties involved. And teachers do need to be involved in these processes. Most times a parent is thinking of the individual needs of their child. In my district, we have to worry about the needs of 32,000 plus children.

I, for one, will be more than happy to have my September baby wait a year so that she will be one of the older, more confident children in her class.

By the way, thanks for having a debate about education in which you have not bashed teachers. I usually don't read the threads about education anymore because it makes me feel so alienated.