This whole Andrea Yates thing has me thinking...

there were days in the past where I really WANTED to give my kids a good whack to the side of the head, because they were driving me crazy. There still are days sometimes, where I just want to grab Emilie by the hair and throw her across the room. Of course I don't... but boy do I want to.

It makes me think back to what my doctor had told me about Effexor XR, and that if I get agressive, or violent, to stop taking them immediately and go see him. I was a little leery about that... but then I saw something on tv about how Andrea Yates had ALSO been taking Effexor XR, and how homicial tendencies are an extremely rare side effect.

I'm thinking to myself... if sometimes, when I'm sitll in control of myself and I want to slap my kids into oblivion because they're not listening, I can just imagine what she went through. It's like those parents that shake their baby after hours and hours of inconsolable crying... it's almost like something in you "snaps" and you're just not "thinking".

How many of us have thought to ourselves "I'm going to put the baby down in his crib and walk away for 10 minutes, or I'm going to hurt him"? I know I certainly ahve, and I still do on occasion. But what if you can't walk away? What if you're obligated to STAY and you get more and more angry about it? My kids have had their fair share of butt spankings. I try hard not to spank their butts when I'm angry... but when I've warned that I'm going to spank them, I have to do it - because then I'm not following through... but maybe I spank harder than I intended to, because I'm angry and fed up and annoyed, you know? I don't know.

I'm just rambling, by the way. I can almost sympathise with the woman. Almost. I still think it was a horrible tragedy, of course... but at the same time, I think about how many of us have done things or said things that are totally wrong, bad, whatever, because of the so called "baby blues"? We're not ourselves when we are depressed... if it's hard for me to get out of bed some days, how hard do you think it will be the rest of the day to have a happy attitude and keep the kids entertained and fed and happy?

I feel sorry for her. I really do. She has probably, by now, realized what's happened, what she's done... and she will never have those children again. I can imagine the remorse and grief she must have felt and still must feel. How many of us just yell at our kids and then feel bad and cry about it? And we lost control of just our VOICES. She lost control of her whole being. She might have chased after her child in her house... but I've certainly chased after my kids to spank them or to yell at them... it's not that much more far fetched really... not when you're depressed from post-partum depression and combined with a drug that has severely violent rare side-effects...

Like I said, I'm just rambling... writing my thoughts... don't flame me!!

I can see what your saying about that one drug she was taking but almost all those types of drugs can cause homicial tendencies.
but dont you think after the first death of her child she would have stopped?
I just dont know what to think about this whole mess maybe the Dr or her DH should have picked up on something bc its quite clear she wasnt all in the right state of mind so they say.

That's a tough one. I understand that she was not in her right mind also but to say she is just insane and did not know what she was doing after the first it totally hogwash. I know right after Annika was born and she was fussing and I had been up all day/ all night I can see where a woman could possible snap.

That's all I'm going to say on this though. I'm still very angered with the turn over.

I don't know. I understand PPD and the feeling like you want to harm your child....BELIEVE me. Just like Rocky said, there's times when you just want to throw that baby against a wall.....but ya don't. KWIM?

I do understand that there's different levels of PPD too, and that she obviously was suffering from it on some level. HOwever, from what I got from the news last night, she called in to the police and told them exactly what she'd done and said she should be punished for it. Almost like she'd planned it, which to me says she knew right from wrong.

It's just makes me ill to think that she chased the kids around the house and that they knew what was about to happen. I know logically a sane person wouldn't do something like that, but even with PPD your love for your kids should kick in at some point, right? The whole thing is just so sad.

I must have missed this......does anyone have a link to the story?

Oh absolutely I think that. I totally think that.

At the same time... sometimes I have emotional outburts towards dh, and I don't realize what's happened until it's over...then what I just said / did sinks in, and i feel really bad and apologize. I'm thankful my dh understands why i o that, and tries to help me through it the best he can. So I don't see it as unlikely that she could have had that type of moment until after... but we will never know, since we are not her...

it's totally not the same and I know, but how many of us said we were onlytaking a handful or a few bites of something and didn't realize until after it's all gone that we ate it all?

So am I. She should have been found guilty, no matter what.

i konw that when i'm really angry or whatever and i'm yelling, or i smack their butts or thigh...my "love" for them kicks in only after it's already happened, and that's when I feel bad for having done it...not while i'm doing it.

Don't misunderstand me please - i am sick over it, it's disgusting what happened to those kids... i'm just trying to put myself in her position... i'm not trying to defend her or anything...

I certainly hear ya.

Been there, the place where you have to put baby down and shut the door, or else. That's why my cupboard door got the butt whoopin and not the baby. That's why I don't see how she could have done what she did, why not place her anger and resentment at the time elsewhere??

It's a tough spot.

I'm with you, Rocky. My boss jumped off a building after being put ON anti-depressants. I also know a man who was murdered by his wife after she started getting treated for PPD and the meds were just plain NOT helping, possibly making her worse. It's a highly profitable industry these days, and yet the science of happy pills within each individual is extremely experimental. The individual needs to be tracking his or her own wellness on the pills, and if delusions take over that's not going to happen. Not to mention the drastic effects of going OFF an antidepressant that is stabilizing your mood. We had such a case here in Michigan, where a mother who couldn't afford her meds anymore (lost health insurance) shot her daughter in the head while she was sleeping (to spare her from a horrible future---the girl was just home from college for the weekend to do laundry, and her future looked pretty good). I feel sorry for Andrea Yates, and every mother or father who suffers insane delusions that lead to such a tragedy. Whether someone should be classified as criminal? I suppose if Ted Bundy, whom I do not pity at all, is a criminal, then so is Andrea Yates---both insane, both serial murderers acting out of suppressed rage. Wherever Andrea ends up, I think we need to learn the lesson that when someone seems to need mental health help---HELP them in any way you can.

We also have to remember (from what I understand) she had postpartum psychosis and not postpartum depression. They are very different---it isn't just profound sadness, it is hearing voices and/or having delusions of some sort---unless any of us are untreated schizophrenic, or have other delusional/psychotic disorders we cannot know for sure what her thoughts were--whether she was even capable of understanding or feeling love. In this kind of case, it is just impossible to know. So without knowing all the facts from her therapists and physicians I have to withhold judgement. I do have a great deal of sadness for those babies and completely agree that she should be hospitalized for a very very long time!

This post has been edited by Jamison'smama on Jul 27 2006, 08:40 AM

I also suffer from depression and anxiety. I have been on Effexor too but I didn't have those problems. I am sorry I think what she did is gross. I hate to say this but she had to know what she was doing when she had to chase her 2 oldest children around the house. I also think the dad is weird and is getting alot of publicity for this. He just isn't right either. If he knew what she was suffering through then he shouldn't have ever left her alone with the kids. Yes I have days where I have to walk away and go into another room but I know this. And my hubby knows when I need a break. I don't know it is weird. We can talk about it and debate but unfortunatly she is not guilty .

One would have to be sick to kill one's own children. How society "punishes" that person is what is debatable to me.

i konw that when i'm really angry or whatever and i'm yelling, or i smack their butts or thigh...my "love" for them kicks in only after it's already happened, and that's when I feel bad for having done it...not while i'm doing it.

I know everyone is different, so i guess I'm just going off of my experience with PPD after Lorelei was born. With my PPD, I'd want to shake Lorelei so hard to get her to shut up and I actually contemplated throwing her against the wall a couple times.....But something inside me said "NO!!" And I'd Call for Dh to take over or I'd put her in her crib and run crying from the room. Those thoughts scared me more than listening to her scream. So I guess that's what I ment by the "love" for the child takes kicks in. But everyone is different. I guess some people just don't have that little voice saying NO or the voice doesn't kick in until later. KWIM?

I totally agree with Marie that this chick should have taken her agressions out on something else other than her kids (ie a cupboard, a car, a door, a wall, anything!). And I've tried to put myself in her shoes, but.....I just can't imagine being that sad or psycotic. Personally, I feel she is a nutty and she'll feel horrible guilt for the rest of her life, but she needs medical help. JMO though.

I don't feel sorry for her in the sense that I think there is a "good excuse" or that she should have been found not guilty, but I agree with a lot of what Rocky said and where I do find myself having a lot of sympathy is just trying to imagine being in that state of mind, whatever it is or whatever caused it. Deliberate or not, just being so out of whack, for lack of a better term.

I understand those feelings too very much so and I certaintly didn't have a very bad case of the baby blues just a touch and yet I can't amagine how horrible she much have been feeling, how much she was going through. I agree with a lot that has been said here she probably honestly didn't know what she was doing.

I attempted Suicide after being put on Zoloft. Dangerous stuff!

I was put on Zoloft in my teens, and I did the same thing. It was almost like I woke up one day and had this thought put into my head... and it turns into an obsession and there is no relief or release from it until you actually act it out. I see your point, but it's the chasing around and multiple killings that don't click with me. It takes a lot of "strength" (stupidity) to try to take your OWN life... more than I could ever describe to anyone who hasn't been there. But to commit multiple murders and actually be coherentenough to chase the kids around the house? This doesn't seem right to me... I know everyone is different, but after my bad bad bad breakdowns, it was like slow motion, I could barely move, barely think, barely breathe... chasing down children and drowning them in a tub is a very premeditated act, and when you are so severely flipped out like that, it just doesn't work that way. But I guess none of us will ever know truly what went on in her head, how we all react very differently to extreme amounts of pressure and stress... hance why some are classified as mentally ill, and some have healthier way to cope

I have to admit...throughout my pregnancy I was very depressed. Even after having Noella I was an emotional wreck. I've had issues with the family, my fiance and ofcourse becoming a mother. I never felt joy. I never saw the bright side of things. I felt like everyone was judging me and telling me how to be a mother, when in reality all they were doing was guiding me through and giving me pointers so things would be somewhat easier on me. The day I came home from the hospital I felt so weird. For the next couple of weeks it continued. I told James I wasn't sure if I could go on feeling this way and yea, I've thought of ending my life. I thought I was already crazy since that's what the hospital made me out to be. Usually I'm strong and I never let what people say about me get the best of me but this time I did...and I knew it was because I just had a baby. I don't think what I had was PostPartum...I believe it was simply the "Baby Blues". At times I find myself getting really mad at the baby...yelling at her if she continues to cry and she just fustrates me but then I say to myself "ok...it's not her fault. I did this...not her." And I'm sure all of us say that because it's not the fact that I'm a young mother...I wanted a baby, it didn't just happen. I mean, we weren't exactly trying at the time but we knew it was possible and we didn't mind so it was something we both wanted so I say she didn't ask to be here...we put her here...and if she cries it's because she needs us. This is our responsibility now. And then again, it really isn't a responsibility. To me, a baby isn't a job. It's something you want, something you have. Something you take care of. Something you WANT to take care of. But even for those who just happen to have a child because it just happened, it's still not the baby's fault because it's something you did...so when I get mad and fustrated I know it's normal but I also know that acting on it isn't gonna get me anywhere and it'll make the situation worse. Needless to say, I'm happy but I know I could be happier (not because of her). Yes it's true...we all must've felt like running away from it...smacking them when they're crying excessively...and I know when Noella gets older and starts to walk and get into everything she doesn't belong in, I know I'm gonna feel this way all over again but it's all normal...it's natural, and I know I'm not alone. It's all a part of parenthood. Best thing to do is take the time out to understand your child. Be calm when they're not...they'll feel your calmness and they'll relax. Try to make them laugh when they're crying...it'll take their minds off of what's causing them to cry. My fiance still has some trouble getting on Noella's level. He looks at me in awe, trying to figure out how I did it...but I just did. We all have a motherly instinct, fathers have fatherly instincts (probably some type of motherly instinct too lol)...but I believe what caused me to understand her so well is because I got so fustrated with her one day that I just said that's it...I'm studying her...and so I did...and I learned. I agree, we all lose our minds for a split-second and in that split-second ANYTHING can happen...which is what happened with Andrea but...I don't agree with what happened. I can't imagine myself hurting my daughter...but then again, I doubt Andrea ever imagined herself hurting hers. Best thing...leave the room for a few minutes if you just can't take it anymore. Crying isn't gonna kill a baby but reacting on your temper just might. They need us...we need them. We put them here because we wanted them. We have to remind ourselves how much we love them when our tempers are flairing. We may all get crazy but at the end of the day, we look at their faces while they're sleeping and say "I love them."

I hope I didn't offend anyone in my post. I just say what I feel and this is what I feel: Andrea is wrong but she definitly needed help. It sounds as if she knew what she did was wrong but that doesn't mean while she was doing it she knew it was wrong. Insanity.............

<3.CHRYSTYNEx

This post has been edited by ShezMyLilBubbleGrl on Jul 31 2006, 05:07 AM

This was a very sad case. I was happy to see she received a 2nd trial. I believe they got it right the 2nd time around. I struggle to understand why they decided to have another child. As their therapist warned, the pyschosis returned. What a sad sad end to this one time happy family.

I personally think the one who should be held responsible for all of this is her husband. He is the one who was supposed to be sane and stable, so I think it's the responsibilty of the sane/stable one (and I do use that term loosely here, because I think there's something wrong with him that he would ignore his wife's obvious need for help) and not the responsiblity of the one who has lost her sanity. I think the important thing to remember in this case is that she wasn't suffering from post-partum depression, but from post-partum psychosis, so it's entirely possible that she didn't have the ability to stop herself the way those who have post-partum depression in this thread were able too. It's esentially two totally different illnessess, and I think should be treated as such. I don't think it's fair to expect the person who is suffering from psychosis to be the rational one, that should have been up to her husband. I think it's always the responsibility of the sane one to protect the kids and to get help for the one who is no longer sane, and clearly Andrea wasn't sane when she killed her children. I'm not going to judge her for how she handled her psychosis, becauase even though I have experienced depression in my life, it's still not the same thing as psychosis, and so I've never been in the place she was in, and I don't really know how I would respond. It's easy to pretend that if I was in her place I would have handled the whole thing so much better, but that doesn't mean that I actually would have.

I'm not going to stand here and say that her illness isn't real, but I still think she should serve life in prison and not a mental institution. I don't know why, but something inside of me says, after she snapped and killed the first child, how could she not snap herself out of it, how could she just calmly call 911 and tell them what she did. And same as Mei-Ling said, her husband is just as much to blame. #1 - why did he continue to have children with her after she suffered is so severely with all the other children #2 - if she was in that type of mind state, why did he leave her alone with the children #3 - why/how can he support her and want her to not rot, to me it just seems weird that he could forgive, I could never ever forgive anyone who ever took my child from me, I don't care if I was the holiest of thou person in the entire world, you take my family from me, you might as well kill me too because I will no longer have a life without my family. My DH said that he would have killed her hisself after he found out what she had done, but then he said better yet - he wouldn't have had anymore children with her - pretty bright idea on the dad's part. This whole thing makes me want to vomit and at the end of the day regardless of what her punishment is, 5 beautiful babies are dead and gone, their lives taken by their own mother, the one person in the world that they trusted the most - forever etched in the minds of everyone that has heard about her horrendous act of violence against her children is what on earth must those children have been thinking when she was doing this to them - it makes me way to cry my eyes out thinking about it - poor innocent babies! I know I had a case of the baby blues and I would get frustrated when Hanna would cry and I would want to just put her in the crib and leave the room for a few minutes or I would not really yell but harshly say things like What on earth could be wrong with you and stuff like that, I mean and still to this day my anger gets the best of me when I have continuously told her no a million times and she defies me, yes if she continues to do it, I will smack he ron the butt or the hand or just yell at the top of my lungs and upset her - but to be at the extent of hearing voices in my head screaming at me to kill my own flesh and blood - someone needed to intervene and that someone was her husband and honestly I think if she could call 911 and tell them what she did was wrong and she needs to be punished - she knew what she was doing to begin with.

This is what I mean. We are considered "sane" and "normal"... and even we go that far. Sure yelling at a child isn't anywhere near drowning the child... but like you said - your anger got the best of you sometimes. I can see where - combined with severe ppd or pppsychosis, this may result in worst case scenarios... to tell you the truth, I'm surprised we don't hear more about parent who go ape-sh*t on their kids. Relieved, too, don't get me wrong.

She should definitely be incarcerated...but with mental treatment.

I agree, there is a huge difference between baby blues and psychosis. I think the reason it's so hard to understand how she could do that is because most of us haven't had to deal with or experience true psychotic disorder.