Power struggle with 16 year old, Thinks she's the boss...

[Catti]

Hi, I'm new here. My name is Patti, I'm 40 and a single mother.

I have a teenager, Cleo, almost 16 now. Sometimes it feels like
she's almost 30, or at least she'd like to think so. I have always
had power struggles with her. I believe that a lot of this is of my
own making, though it is added to by the fact that she's a Leo, has
a very strong and willful personality. She digs her heels in and
there's no budging her, not with a twenty-mule team. She's been like
this ever since she was a toddler.

Also, I grew up with abusive parents whose mantra was "do it because
I say so, I'm the boss and you're nothing because you're just a
kid." Any attempt to question this autocratic rule brought physical
retaliation: being beaten, kicked, punched, thrown down the stairs
by the hair, etc. I spent much of the first five years of my life
with episodes of blacking out (losing consciousness without
warning), heavy nosebleeds etc. because my parents' favourite
disciplinary tactic (if cursing, name-calling and yelling didn't
work) was to hit us in the face, ears or head, with fists, open
hands or items such as shoes. I vowed never to treat my child that
way.

Cleo and I have a non-typical relationship. I have raised her alone
since she was 4 and I left her (schizophrenic and violent) father.
He committed suicide a few years after. I have never hit her, or
said "do it because I say so" and I don't normally even raise my
voice to her. I must admit I've always felt guilty because I've
never been rich or able to afford to do many of the things parents
do for their kids, like send her for lessons or sports, or to girl
guides etc. I've never been able to afford to feed and house any of
her friends for sleepovers, or host birthday parties. But, I've
always bought things she asked for, as soon as I could scrape the
money together for them: game consoles, games, clothes, piercings,
fancy haircuts at expensive salons. We long ago had the piercing vs.
tattoo debate - I said she could get piercings with my supervision
and approval as they can be taken out and grown in later. Tattoos
are something I won't pay for because they are permanent. She can
get whatever tattoos she wants as an adult who is paying for them
(and potentially their removal) on her own. She dresses sort of
goth/punk and the clothing for this, along with the haircuts, can be
a bit pricey. But I will spend the money to let her do this when I
can afford it. I went punk in the early days when I was a teen
myself, and I remember having to make or improvise all my clothes
for it, because my parents refused to buy me clothes or pay for
haircuts. I had to babysit to earn the money to dress myself and get
my hair cut, when I was her age. Again, not a fair way to treat a
teenager, IMHO. When you're a teen, babysitting money should be
pocket money, parents should be responsible for basics like clothing
and haircuts. Especially when they're as well-off as my parents
were, they could easily afford it. My father used to say "you're not
riding in my car with me when you're dressed like that!" Nowadays I
wish I could dress like that still, but in my line of work I can't.
Also I'm getting a bit old for it.

Anyway, I've always based my decisions with her on logic and
fairness. Sadly I tended to lose sight of the big picture, which
is "I'm the adult and the breadwinner, and the one who's ultimately
responsible for her as a minor". And therefore I should have
ingrained in her the idea that I'm the head of the household. I
didn't do this, for as a lonely adult with no friends I turned to
her unconsciously as a friend, so she sees herself as an equal. Or
more than equal actually. She now thinks she gets first dibs on
everything in the house, not owing me anything in return. I tried to
teach her fairness and respect by treating her with fairness and
respect. But, I forgot, she's a kid. Too much "fairness and respect"
is lost on kids. You have to put your foot down with kids at times,
and I never did. So, she thinks she's the boss now. I never made her
earn the stuff she got, like "you can have that Game Boy if you do
some chores around the house". I always just bought it for her. She
was always a pretty good kid as long as she got her way. She was
generally better and easier to manage than a lot of other kids her
age. I could take her anywhere and never have to be embarrassed by
her behaviour. So I figured she deserved some extra treats. I should
have made her do housework etc to earn privileges. But, that's where
the stubborn thing comes in. She would never clean up her room even
as a young kid. I'd try punishing her but she'd just dig in those
mule heels of hers and still not clean the room. I'd make her sit
for hours, even the whole day, in her room, telling her she wasn't
coming out until it was clean. She'd sit there and not lift a finger
the whole time. I'd end up going in to "help" and doing 99% of the
work until it was done. She'd pick up one or two toys, then start
playing with them.

Now it's the same with housework. When I was a kid, my mother
treated us like a homegrown staff of house servants, unpaid of
course. With Cleo I tried to set up a sort of fair schedule where we
take turns at certain chores. I don't even ask her to do the thing
she hates most, which is change the litterbox. I just ask that she
does the dishes on her turn, and the bathroom all the time (because
I always do all the floors). She does her own room (finally!) and
her own laundry. Well, she hasn't washed the dishes since we moved
in to the apartment last December. She has (half) done the bathroom
maybe twice. She always "forgets" the toilet or the bathtub. I have
to do dishes every time I want to eat or cook. I refused to do them
all, because I didn't want to let her off the hook. Finally a friend
came over, was horrified (rightly) at the state of the heap of
dishes in the sink, and washed the whole lot. It took him 2 hours.
Cleo was out at the time. She came home and I could tell she
honestly felt badly that my friend ended up doing her job. My friend
and I had had supper and there were a few dishes in the sink, she
offered to do those. Suffice it to say it's over a week later, the
sink is full again. I mentioned the dishes again last night when I
got home from work, I did not raise my voice and tried not to nag as
well. Just asked her if she would do them tomorrow (now today) while
I'm at work. She snapped "get off my back!" and that was it. My
friend was over on Fri and offered to do them *again* but I was
ashamed to ask him. I told her he offered and why I refused. Her
attitude shifted a wee bit, but still the dishes go undone.

I admit I made a rather big mistake when we moved in to our current
apartment. It has two bedrooms, one quite tiny, the other huge with
a big walk-in closet. When I chose that apartment I wanted the big
room of course. Then Cleo wheedled and pleaded with me to get the
big room. I wasn't going to let her have it, but in our last place
her room was not much bigger than a walk-in closet, and it was the
worst for noise from upstairs as well (we lived in a basement apt in
a house). So, I relented and let her have that room. What did she do
with it? She put her bed etc in the CLOSET, and she sleeps there.
The actual bedroom has been empty up until recently when I bought my
Mac and she got the PC. Now she has the PC in the bedroom. Her bed
is still in the closet. The rest of that huge bedroom is empty
still, it doesn't even have a curtain on the window. This room is
about the size of a livingroom in an average apartment, by the way.
What a waste. Meanwhile my big queen-sized bed, with its steel
headboard/footboard, is crammed into the tiny bedroom. There is
barely space to walk around the bed, and all my stuff is crammed in
stacks of boxes overflowing from the tiny cupboard. I can't even fit
a chest of drawers in there, all my clothes have to be on hangers in
the closet with the boxes. No wonder she thinks she's the boss.
She's got the "corner office suite". The one time I tried to take it
over, the tantrum was of epic proportions. I'd have had to resort to
physical violence (which I don't do) to get the room. Or, wait until
she was out and move everything. Then face the "music" when she got
back. But I don't like resorting to such underhanded tactics, not to
mention she'd probably retaliate by destroying my stuff or breaking
in to the room and moving everything back when I'm at work. Then
what do I do? I have told her, though, that when we move (which we
will be doing within the next few months if I get a new job I want,
because they are moving their office to the other end of the city)
*I* will be getting the master bedroom. Whether she likes it or not.

I will give a couple of examples of the first dibs thing. First of
all, for a long time we only had one PC. At first that was fine, it
was located in my bedroom and I controlled her use of it. Cleo
wasn't that interested in it anyway. Then as she got older, she
started using it more and more, to chat with friends and play online
games. She started giving me more and more hassles when I wanted to
use it. I'd try revoking the privilege of computer use for periods
as a punishment for being so obnoxious when I wanted to use it.
She'd just use it when I wasn't around. I'd try setting Windows so
she couldn't log in. Cleo would retaliate by physically sabotaging
the computer so I couldn't use it either. Like once, she opened the
cpu and took the modem card out so I couldn't use the internet.
Another time when we had dsl, she grabbed the external modem during
a tantrum, and dashed it on the floor, destroying it. This was
because she refused to get off the computer when I wanted to use it,
so I unplugged the computer from the wall. Basically she believed
that she had the first right of refusal on computer use, even though
I am the one paying for the Internet, and the one who bought and
paid for the computer in the first place. Even when I did get to use
the computer, she'd be in the background pestering and harassing me
the whole time: "when are you getting off, when are you getting off,
I want to use it..." etc. Like she owned the computer and was just
letting me borrow it for a few minutes.

Another more recent example: I am switching which bank I deal with.
The new bank has an offer right now, if you open an account with
them and let them switch all your business from your former bank
account to theirs, they send you a free Ipod Shuffle. When HRH (Her
Royal Highness) found out I was getting this free Ipod, she demanded
I hand it right over to her. As if she had the automatic right to
it, and maybe I could have it if she didn't want it. When I told her
I was keeping it for myself, she freaked. Screamed and yelled at the
top of her lungs at me about how she would use it more, needed it
more, that I could have her old mp3 player that she doesn't like,
etc etc etc. Wouldn't take no for an answer. Wouldn't accept the
fact that, after all, this was my bank account, my business, my
money, therefore my Ipod to do with what I pleased. Not hers.
Ironically, when I was buying my Mac Mini I offered to buy an Ipod
Shuffle for her as well, but she turned it down as "not good enough"
because it wouldn't hold enough songs. Now that I'm getting one for
free, she wants it. The only way I could shut her up and get her off
my case that day, was to tell her I'd buy her an Ipod Mini (which
she really wants more anyway) when I could afford it. (Actually what
I'd like to do is buy the Ipod Mini - for ME, and she can have the
Shuffle then. She'd really freak out about that. Tough.)

Anyway, a couple of months ago I bought myself the Mac Mini, and I
must say it's a relief to have my own PC and get to use it when I
want without having to fight with HRH. I also bought a wireless
router to share the internet connection with the PC, but she gets
kicked off the connection now and again. So I hear nothing but
complaints from her, even though she should be thanking me for
letting her have her own PC. No pleasing her. Spoiled brat, but of
my own making I'm afraid. She doesn't have a clue how good she has
it compared to other kids. She thinks all the nice things she gets
are nothing more than her due. So for the past couple of months
things have been a lot calmer around the house. We don't fight over
the computer anymore. For the time being anyway.

Unfortunately I've recently created a big problem for myself that
I'm going to have to be very firm to put a stop to ASAP. I made the
mistake of letting Cleo install a new game on my computer at home,
because it won't work on the PC. The video card can't handle it
apparently. She bugged me for this game for weeks, then when I
finally got it for her it doesn't work on her PC. Since I'm working
12 hour shifts and not home, I agreed to let her install this game
on my computer, with the proviso that she get off my computer when I
get home from work. This is especially important when I'm working,
because I've only got about an hour on the computer before I go to
bed, after I've had something to eat and taken the dog out.

So I got home last night, and (surprise surprise) she was still on
my computer. I relented a bit, as I had to eat and take the dog out
anyway, but told her when I got back in with the dog she was to be
off the computer. Of course she was still at it when I got back: "my
friend is helping me get out of this city...". So I said "fine, get
out of the city and get right off the computer as it's after 10 and
I want to use it before I have to go to bed at 11". Well to make a
long story short, I didn't get on the computer until about 10:40.
She wasn't rude or nasty with me (she used to be when we had one PC
and I wanted her off, you should have seen the fights we used to
have!) as I think she knew she was in the wrong.

I have thought of tying her access to this game/my computer to
getting the dishes/housework done. Unfortunately I can't physically
stop her from using my computer when I'm not there, short of hauling
the computer to work with me. And, it's a lot heavier than it looks,
and not meant to be portable anyway. I don't want to drag it around
and risk breaking it. I also don't want to risk her breaking it or
tampering with it out of spite if I try to prevent her from using it
in another way. Once we move, I'm going to install a lock on my
bedroom door, and my computer will be in my bedroom. That way I will
have more control over things, as the cable modem and router will be
in my room as well, and she won't be able to tamper with anything.

So now it remains to be seen what will happen, though I can predict.
She'll be on my computer when I get home, and once again I will hear
a litany of excuses and delays when I try to get her off. That was
par for the course when we had one PC to share. This time there will
be an ultimatum: "get off, NOW, or I unplug the computer from the
wall, uninstall your game, and you'll have to wait until you get
another video card for the PC before you play it again". No ifs,
ands, or buts. I am NOT going to go through the hell of having to
fight to use my own computer again every day. Enough is enough.

Yes I could use the PC in the other room, but it's sitting on a
coffee table on the floor right now, and it's very difficult for me
to get to sit down there, much less get up, with my arthritic knees.
The other option would be to haul the box from the PC into the
living room for the time being, and put the Mac in her room. I don't
like doing that, for I've set up the Mac the way I want it and have
all my music and other files at my disposal, but it could be done. I
will give that some thought. Maybe I will agree to a temporary PC
switch, IF she does the dishes and the bathroom. Properly. Tomorrow.
If I get home tomorrow evening and no cleaning is done, no PC
switch. I have to put my foot down at some point.

I've tried finding parenting forums on the Internet, no luck so far.
I'd sure like some support and advice from other parents out there.
Right now I really feel like things are messed up in our household
and that my kid is running roughshod over me. I want to fix this
situation, but how do I do it? I've tried talking to her and
reasoning and negotiating (like for instance I tried offering her
the Ipod in exchange for the big bedroom), but she will have none of
it. She refuses to voluntarily give up any of her perqs, or do
anything to earn them. I don't want to destroy our relationship, as
I'm afraid that will end with her moving out at a young age, getting
into trouble, ruining her life. And me feeling totally guilty,
responsible, and miserable. But, I'm finding myself resenting her
more and more, as I feel more and more used and downtrodden.
Something (besides me) has to give. I'm tired of being the one who gives all the
time, and gets nothing in return.

[mckayleesmom]

Ok,,,

1. You are the parent...not her
2. You need to start sticking to your punishments and consiquinces (consistancy is KEY)
3. If my daughter destroyed things when I was out of the house....she would find her stuff missing when she got home from somewhere.
4. Buy a lock for your door...a deadbolt that needs a key to get access
5. Rent a storage unit....every time she acts up....take stuff away from her and put them in the storage where she doesn't know where it is.
6. Make her get a job...if she wants all this computer equipment..ipods, etc....Make her earn it herself. I never got the stuff she has...and what I did get..I earned. Im a better person for it now.
7. I think family couseling would be a good thing...You need to learn to take back control without bringing the way you were raised into the accuation...children are not going to die if they are told no....She needs to learn how to respect you.

[mckayleesmom]

Also..I would copy the stuff you just told us and give it to her...Maybe then she will see how selfish and childish she is.

[Hillbilly Housewife]

Oh my.


First off, congrats for trying to get advice / help....

I'd say she is being a typical 16 year old rebel.

However, you seem to think a lot of this is your doing - although I don't think it's your doing, I don't think that you've helped much is getting her straightened up.... here's what you could do.

Like Brianne said - kids aren't going to die if they're told no. She's 16 - but she's still a KID.

I say splurge on a bit of money - get yourself a lock for a bedorom door, a GOOD one. When she's out - get a friend to help you move her stuff out of her room, ito yours, and vice versa.... come ON. As if you tolerate her having her bed in her CLOSET!!! Sheesh woman! Put your foot down!!

Then set her a LIMIT on money you're going to spend on her - if you typically spend 150$ every month on her - tell her you're not going to spend more than 80$. And that if she wants to go over that 80$, she'll have to get a J-O-B. It's only fair - you don't have a second income coming it, from child support or otherwise.

it could be worse - she could be on drugs, in prostitution etc etc..... so you're pretty lucky to have just an attitude to deal with - even if it is a crappy one.

Yes, she'll probably "hate" you for a couple days or even weeks - but she'll get over it.

Remember - you teach people how to treat you. If you let her walk all over you - she WILL.


Good luck - keep us posted.

[luvbug00]

As a former Royal highness, I agree 100% with Brianne.