I have some concerns, changes in Daniel

Over the past few weeks, George and I have noticed a change in Daniel's behavior that I'm not sure is okay. We can't figure out whether there is something psychological going on (worried about something) or just physical (nervous energy, biochemical issues).

He's biting all his fingernails to the quick. But of more concern to me is these noises he makes at certain times when he's focusing hard, which are like little anxious rhythmic sounds. They're not exactly whimpers---more like the out-of-breath sound you make when you have to make a slight effort to lift something, except he does it rhythmically and unconsciously. And with the nail biting or the self-soothing type of noises, I have to kind of get his attention and he'll stop, but occasionally he's gotten upset with me when I try to stop the nail-biting. And there will be times daily where he babbles to the extent that he's hard to understand and is hard to calm down---almost manic? This is very new to us. It might be all a normal part of being 4 going on 5. I certainly have seen lots of kids behave in these ways, but those are not my kid, you know? I'm not sure whether to be more worried or ride it out. The weird thing is, he doesn't seem "anxious" or withdrawn, or troubled about anything in particular. He laughs and hugs and runs around and tells stories and greets strangers and plays.

George and I have talked a few times about it possibly just being a growth spurt, either cognitively or physically. If anyone has experience with anxiety in young children, is that what it looks like? Could it just be brain growth---new connections, lots of neurons firing?

I have seen kids his age do these things when they are concentrating on a task. Has he been learning a lot of new skills lately? I can understand why you would be confused when he never did these before.

Ashley used to stick her tongue out a little when she was really concentrating , but she just stopped doing it one day.

Tracy, I noticed with caleb in the last month, with us working on so many new tasks for kindergarden, telling time, and reading, and money counting, that he has also developed some loud ways of concentrating..He is holding his hands over his ears, and sometimes clicks his tongue too, do you think daniel might just have a hard time concentrating? has he said why he does it?

No real experience with those kinds of symptoms, Tracy. I do notice other manifestations of anxiety in Corey that I am pretty certain point toward a worrying kind of personality. The reason it's so easy for me to identify it as such is because, of course, she gets that from me. But it's pretty garden variety stuff like fears and aversions typical of a 4 yo. . His symptoms sound a little bit different than that. It certainly doesn't sound like anything serious, he's basically a happy, healthy, normal little guy. Can you just ask him why he's making those noises? Dh said he used to hum monosyllabically for hours at a time as a child, and to this day, he doesn't know why. He only remembers his mom yelling at him to stop and he continued on. If it makes you feel better, talk to your ped or do some investigating online ( with caution- don't go disease shopping)- but I bet it's nothing colossally disturbing. Just a weird idiosyncrasy probably.

Kylie has been doing weird things too, for awhile now. Hers are this funny noise she makes with her throat and she doesn't even know she does it. She does it CONSTANTLY and it drives DH and I batty! Also she is constantly pulling up her pants/underwear like they are falling down and they could be tightly on her. It's very very strange.

I'm wondering if it's just got something to do with their age.

Kylie gets very upset when we tell her to stop doing either, that's for sure.

I seem to remember humming or making repetitive sounds when I was concentrating as a child... I may still do it I think the maniacal talking is probably normal for the age... Sophia surely does it.

I think it is most likely nothing to worry about, but talking with your doctor certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

Yeah, he is learning a lot of new things. When I asked why he makes those sounds, he said "I don't know... I just want to." I'm reassured that other kids do strange things while concentrating. He's always got music in his head, too---it may just come naturally to sound out a pattern when he's focusing.

Okay, since I have a child with these issues I bring it up with everyone but Jamison has some anxiety due to sensory integration/processing issues. She is now in OT and the therapist observed Jamison biting her nails (one of the reasons I sought help--she would bite until bleeding) when she was anxious, when being over stimulated and when she was lacking stimulation---so overall she was using excessive nail biting (and toenail biting) as a coping mechanism. She hasn't done the rhythmic noises which may be a similar coping skill or like others said...completely normal.

I am amazed at the number of kids with Sensory Processing problems that go untreated. The kind that Jamison has is more often mistaken for hyperactivity...craves strong physical contact, easily distracted etc. but there are a myriad of types.

Pediatricians are often very unaware of SI, I did some research then had an OT who specializes is this send me a questionnaire. I am not at all saying this is his issue..this may just be a public service announcement coming out

If this is the first thing you have noticed, it could very easily be a new noise or coping skill he is trying out and will stop at any time.

Try not to worry. Katherine is high strung, shy & very creative. She is a nail picker. She does it when she's bored and when she's nervous. It drives me insane. She's also a fidgiter in the worse possible way

My cousin, who is now a very well adjusted (and very creative musician) had tics throughout childhood. The first time her mom noticed something, J was 4. She was sitting on C's lap and C noticed that it felt like Jade was clenching and unclenching her spinchter. Of course C thought that was odd but she just started watching more closely. Her tics moved around as she aged, for awhile it as her neck muscles that she'd tense and release over and over, for awhile it was blinking. Finally, her ped diagnosed her with a very very mild case of tourettes. It's never effected her negatively that I'm aware of though. The last few times I've seen her (she's in her mid 20s now) I didn't notice anything.

I wonder if it's a creative thing? Have you ever asked Daniel if he "hears colors", "sees letters or numbers as colors" or "sees sounds"? I suspect that many artistic types do so, but aren't aware that they are different. KWIM? Maybe he's just working out patterns by talking to himself. Maybe he's a genius & we are all too stupid to figure it out.

It's probably nothing to worry about. I know I talk to myself all the time. If a stranger walked in on me while I was working alone at the computer, they'd send the men in white coats to take me away immediately. I'm not even positive that I'm speaking english some of the time. LOL

I'd probably just note the behavior, see when it happens and see if it evolves.

I just re-read your original post. Are the sounds kind of like a throat clearing at all? K was making some bizarro sounds when she had those tonsiliths. I think they were just bugging her throat and she'd make the sounds to try and move them.

I know with my child if she has too much sugar ( sweets and juices) she gets hyper and personality changes.

Colt used to bite his nails terribly and it was just boredom but it wasn't accompanied by anything else you mentioned. It doesn't sound uncommon though, I think I would just take some notes on it in case you do need to speak to someone.

I'm a chronic nail biter still (to the point of bleeding sometimes), and I also still stick my tongue out when I work/concentrate. I can easily be classified as a "creative type".
A little neurosis never hurt anyone....

This information and reassurance is all appreciated, guys. Thanks for posting your experience, Brenda. Daniel will chew his toenails too if he's barefoot. Almost with enthusiasm. I have noticed that he does the vocalizing thing not just when he's concentrating but also when he's bored. What you describe closely matches, so I intend to keep SI issues in mind and see how things progress. It's not like throat clearing, to answer that question. It's closer to an anxious hum. I did think about Tourette's as a possibility, although he appears to be able to stop voluntarily---I can remember times when he was littler though, when he'd be falling asleep and would clench in a pattern. I could count to eight and his little body would tighten and release. That doesn't happen anymore, but it's in the back of my mind. Thanks, ladies!

I know a little boy with Tourette's, and I do believe that's a more involutary action. Daniel's habits seem to coincide with certain predictable situations. I doubt that it's Tourette's. Brenda's post about SID seemed the most germaine- I had looked into that when Corey was having her anal retention issues and I think it's pretty common and not well understood.
In the end, I'd be careful not to pathologize what is most likely a normal behavior for a 4 yo.

Good advice, Jeanne! At least I did no googling this time If Daniel is neurotic, maybe it's because he has to fill the role of "center of the universe" as the only child of two over 40, high-strung, overanalyzers