Educating your children

Michelle, I'm glad you chimed in here. It's nice to hear from teachers like yourself and Edie. I didn't mean to imply that was all that you taught in kinder, but the point I was trying to make is that I think Ashley is advanced academicallay, but needs to be around more kids socially. That's why I thought it would be better for her to go earlier. However, you are saying that the opposite is true and that she should wait until she is 6. So, now I am more confused than ever.

I wish I could feel as confident as you that Ashley would get individual attention. Just like any other job, there are some really great teachers that give 120% and then there are few bad apples that gives everyone a bad name. And then there are issues like over-crowded classroooms, that would make individual attention impossible even for the best teachers.

Is there any chance you could move to Ohio and I could send Ashley to your class!

That cut-off date is blah blah, lol. It's a debate none of us can win really. When people tell me that I think well how come my child born 6 days after the cut-off wouldn't be emotionally ready than one born 6 days before her. I know they have to have a cut-off, though.

Dh and I both started early and were among the youngest in our class. Most of our class that started later were actually MORE immature than us who were younger and the younger ones actually excelled better academically.

So I guess they must go on an overall percentage when calculating what's the best date for cut-off. I just never see how they can determine Sept 1 and before babies are emotionally ready and those Sept 2 and on are not. I think they should test academically and emotionally as to whether a child is ready and go from there, but for some reason the school systems don't see the necessity.

This is a good thread though. It's given me a lot to think about, areas I necessarily haven't until now. So I appreciate this debate. And as far as teachers go...there are good and bad..just like there are good and bad school systems...so I would never bash teachers . They hold the key to my child's future since I can't homeschool.

I also started school early-I was a few days shy of 5 when school started and I was emotionally not ready, but then again neither were alot of the other kids who were the right age. I don't really think I have suffered in the long run. My daughter Megan won't be 5 until November but I am starting her this fall. Accademically I think she is ready. Of course since we are homeschooling it is quite different as we can go at our own pace. I really think it should depend on the child.

First of all, thanks for providing the perspective of a teacher. I know it must be difficult to be in a profession where everyone is so judgmental and sometimes critical. I hope you continue to participate in these conversations because it is essential to hear the teachers' perspective.
My parents and most of my close friends are lifelong public school teachers. I am still seriously considering a mid life career change to elementary ed, so I obviously have an awareness about and an affinity for teaching.
Having said that, I want to respond to your comment above. The real problem with public education, imo, is the temptation to view the student body as a monolithic structure. Schools are often criticized, rightly so sometimes, for teaching right down the middle, to little Johnny Average with one specific learning style. Anyone that falls outside of that prototype may or may not get their individual needs met. There are all sorts of programs and state mandates for children with special needs, but many kids fail to meet the criteria. And very often, those children are those like Kylie or Ashley, very bright, high achievers, as well as those whose learning style is not well accomodated in a regular classroom. (I'm thinking of kids who are not quite ADD, but are atypical learners that struggle with the rigid structure of a classroom) I realize the schools are only required to meet minimum standards, but it's sad and frustrating that these kids with so much potential are basically ignored.
And while the school is obligated to consider the needs of 32K kids, it is also obligated to remember those needs are not all the same.

While Cameron is our oldest and won't be going to school for a while, we will homeschool when the time comes. I have taught in publoic schools and done a lot of research on homeschooling, and have found that homeschooling will be the best option for us. Since I have a teaching degree, our state allows me to teach and assess my children without interference. I just need to report the results out. Like Ashley, and several other kids on here it seems, cameorn academically knows most of the things taught here in our public school kindergarten. As far as the social aspect is concerned, I own a licensed daycare center and he is there 4 days a week with me but in the toddler classroom. he is socially learning all the things he need to and academically he is above the level that they screen for here in Kindergarten. So I am not concerned that he will become some socially withdrawn child because he will be homeschooled. It is about the opportunities that you encourage and provide for your child that help them develop and grow, not the ones that they are merely thrown into and hope for the best, or hope that some other adult will encourage positive relationships to be formed/ social skills will be learned. As a parent and an educator I firmly believe that God gave children to parents to raise, educate, socialize, nuture and love. He made teachers, daycare workers, doctors, etc. to help in the areas as needed, NOT to do the job for the parents. This is why school systems cannot have children! It is not their primary function, they are there to ASSIST the families in child rearing and educating, not to do it for them. IMO anyway.

Also as far as cutoffs go VT allows each district to choose their own cutoff date. Some districts have a sept 1, some have a sept 30, some have a nov 1, etc. Our school district curently has a Dec 31st cutoff. This allows any child born in a calendar year to attend school with their same age peers. Now i understand that it doesn't take into account their development levels but in all reality, why would a child born 5 days before another be any more ready for school than one born five days later? It would be discrimination if a child had a disability to hold them from entering school because they weren't developmentally/socially ready, but it's not for a "regular" kid?! Also paretns have the choice (at least here) to keep their child from entering Kindergarten until age 6 if they feel they are not ready, and a school can suggest that a child stay out until age 6 even if they meet the cutoff but it ends up being the parents final say if they do meet the cutoff. But regardless of their ability levels/socialization levels, if they don't make the cutoff for age. they aren't allowed in.
VT want to change the law so that all districts have the same cutoff of Sept 1, but allow individual school boards to make exceptions as they see fit! IMO this is rediculous! All it is saying is that paretns that have pull with the school board can make their kids the exception, and those without pull have to abide by the rule! What an awful thing to teach 5 year olds! ( or almost five year olds!)

Hello ladies! I am brand new here at Parenting Club and I am enjoying reading your lively but good-natured discussions. We home school our five living children. They are between the ages of about 12 and 1 years. I have been home schooling since the first was born. I consider it a lifestyle, not just an educational choice. I allow them to have varied social contacts. They are not less human for never having had their lunch money stolen and been hungry the whole day. They are no less socialized for not having been punched out on the playground. They have been involved in various activites through the years and are not socially deprived in anyway. I consider a certain amount of isolation a good thing. That said, my children have encountered people from all walks of life through AWANA and chess clubs, church choir, community theater, home school group activites, and much more. They have had to deal with less savory individuals but they have come out shining because they are not brow-beaten with said "opportunities" and have ample time to come up for air. They are not adults yet and I do not feel it is healthy for them to be exposed to adult-sized confrontations beyond their scope 8 hours a day for five days out of seven.
All this said, I have the utmost respect for teachers. My oldest sister was an excellent teacher up until this year when she quit after 20 years due to frustration with the system. Children who were no longer allowed to ride the bus were forced to drive cars and getting hurt at alarmingly increased rates as they hurried to school while her summer breaks were being stolen from her through district-controlled hooplah. I taught pre-K in private institutions prior to becoming a mother. I saw the inside of the private sector and my sister saw the inside of the public sector. Before I was even married and long before my sister's last disenchantment, though, I was convinced that home school would be the best for any children I would be blessed with.
I did not know then what I know now, but I did see the struggles that gripped me as a teacher in a simply stupendous private school. Even with resources like an olympic-sized pool and an indoor track, I was still pressed to give those kids all they needed. I did not know, at taht time, that even Ivy League school enrollment staff would be clamouring to have home schoolers in their student body due to unprecidented studies that home schoolers are self-starters. I did not know then that the school gun issue that hit my high school would become rampant in later years. I did not even know that only 10% of what is taught at the chalk board is truly retained when 90% of what is heard, seen, AND worked with is retained, making home school unit studies even more desireable.
Now that our dear children are nearly 12, 10, 8, 4, and 1, (our 5th child would have turned 2 years old in June) I can see that my pull toward home schooling was a wiser choice than I had ever dreamed. My first three children, alone, represent three different learning modalities! Yes, most teachers are trained to meet the individual differences of such a range, but it is truly a challenge I wish not to release to anyone but myself, in regard to my own children. The student-teacher ratio is also much easier to deal with. I even consider I am doing conventional school teachers a favor by lowering their class attendances just a bit. A few years ago, a nationwide (US) study was done with teachers of K-6 children. The teachers were asked to estimate how much time they were able to spend with each child in their class. Stop and just imagine what the average was. You will surely be at least as shocked as I was, even though I was painfully aware of how few those minutes of individual time are when your student-teacher ratio excells even the "good" standards of my largest class of 15-1. Well? Did you guess 7 minutes? Now guess how often they received those precious 7 minutes.
Did you guess one week? I am not fabricating this, my friends! The average individual time each child got with a teacher was seven minutes per week! Even a working mother could provide that! Again, PLEASE understand that I support teachers of all walks. I am with them in the fight for our future! I am only painfully aware of their challenges. They have been given an insurmountable task with limited resources. I have seen the very best private schools and I still have come to my own opinion that my children will be the most well rounded if I allow them to use our home as thier educational, social, and spiritual base. (notice I said BASE) This means home schooling for us.
Thanks for letting me barge in and blab.
Sharon in KS
Jill of all trades
Master of none
Mom of many
Wife of one

hi Sharon! welcome to the board and thanks for that inspiring post. it almost made me want to get off my bum and try home schooling my 3 kids but i don't think i have the discipline and know-how that it takes. you must be very proud of your accomplishments. you are doing such a wonderful things for your kids

I actually voted public, but that was because I myself went to a public school. The only thing is we are military so I think I am going to have to see how good the base school is first before I make that decision. I will tell you one thing. If we were going to be in Hawaii for Jade's schooling I would homeschool. The education system out here is really bad. Even the schools on base leave a child way behind for other schools. I went through the Florida publc school system myself and I was fine. I even went to a Florida college and I felt like I was ready when I got there. I just want what is best for Jade so If I have to homeschool her then I will. Most likely though she will go to a public school.

I homeschooled my son for a little over half a year in 2nd grade. The main reason why was because I didn't care about his teacher. During the remainder of the year I was able not only teach him school subjects but also made a lot of stress on my own expectations of him, teach him about how important school is and just give him a break from the strict routine. He is back now fully prepared, completely improved in behaviour and I feel a little better about him being back in regular school. But I won't hesitate to take him out again if he develops any problems that could interfere with his studies, or if I feel he is not in a safe situation. During my own years in school I sometimes wish my parents could have homeschooled me for a year. The reason why is that in some cases when you go back after some time spent in homeschool you are ready to have a fresh start and feel more confident, rested and ready to take the world. But I wouldn't homeschool for the entire school career. However, even while he is in a regular school we never miss an opportunity to learn at home.

We didn't have a very good experience in pre school, so I am not sure if I would want to send my second child to preschool. But a lot also depends on the child, and all kids are different and some might do better in homeschool while others in a regular school. I think that if you have an opportunity to try both and see which fits you best, it is a good idea. And with some kids it is a good idea to include them into this decision. Before we took our son out I talked to him extensively about homeschooling and stated what I expected from him. I also kept the door to public school open during our homestudies so he wasn't surprised when we sent him back this year. He feels good about both, homeschooling and regular school now, and this makes me feel good too that we have options. Fortunately, in our state homeschooling is also very much supported by the government.

I went to Catholic Schools, and spent 20+ years teaching in them. (my husband too!)

Yet our kids are going to public school. I'm a SAHM for the time being, and we just can't afford the tuition. It kills me, because I really do believe in a school where there are moral absolutes. But we can't afford it. Luckily, the public schools here are great. Maybe by the time high school rolls around, when I'm back to work, we'll be able to afford it.

I agree with what you say about teachers in private schools not needing to be certified, at least in NY. But... honestly, to me that isn't a big deal. (And yes, I am certified. I got my Masters in 1984). What I learned in my Ed. courses didn't really effect the kind of teacher I would become-- I don't remember them ever hitting the really important things you learn the first few years you teach (Like how to get a bee out of your room-- turn off the lights and open the windows-- they love light!) or how to get a class's attention by lowering your voice. The math I learned in grad school was like Calc 3 and Calc 4-- not the geometric proofs I taught to the kids in high school

I think that, more than Certification, a school with lots of great experienced teachers is what makes a newbie into a good teacher. I was lucky enough to have a WONDERFUL chairman my first few years...a little old nun who was just amazing with the kids. And one of the other teachers -- also amazing-- took me under her wing and taught me a lot.

Hi everyone, I am Jeanine, and while I have been to this board before, it has been a long time. I am mom to Gabriel (9) Dominic (6 1/2) and Mikayla (18 months). My DH went to private school his entire life and he prefers to send our kids to public school and I went to public schools all my life and preferred to send them to private! LMAO Go figure. Anyhow, we decided to compromise and as long as the kids are in decent school districts, then we will send them to public school, however if we aren't in great school then we will look for a good private school. While I LOVE the thought of homeschooling, I just don't have the time, energy, and most of all discipline to provide a great homeschooling environment. This is where another compromise comes in. I send my children to public schools for their primary formal education, but I work VERY HARD at home to supplement with whatever they happen to need.

As for the cuttoff dates, personally I agree with the schools trend to go to a September 1, or even a July or August 1st cuttoff. My first two kids are boys, and while it is not written in stone, girls tend to be ready for school much earlier than boys. This is definately the case with my firstborn. His birthday was August 14, so he made the September 1st cuttoff by just 2 weeks. However, the closer he got to the Kindergarten Roundup dates, it bacame more and more clear that he was not ready for K. We opted to hold him back. We worried for an entire year whether or not we made the right decision. Well, just before Kindergarten we moved to a new school district that had a DECEMBER 1st cuttoff. This meant that he was even OLDER than the general class. I was very active in his classrooms, and while I noticed that at least half of the girls were ready at the age of 5, hardly ANY of the boys were ready! Gabriel was STILL just barely ready. Now my second son had a January 4th birthday, so we didn't have a choice, he had to wait until he was 5 1/2. He is a VERY BRIGHT boy, but I am still glad he couldn't start kindergarten until 5years9months. Again, I looked at his class and most of the girls were OK, but very few boys were.

Another thing to keep in the back of your mind...I have read that a lot of us started school when we were still 5 and some even 4, and we all turned out OK. BUT, we weren't learning half as much as the kindergartners today are! We were taught the same stuff that our pre-schoolers are today, and our kindergartners are expected to already know all their colors and to count to 20 and their abc's and how to write their names and alphabets. In Kindergarten they are expected to do much more, including beginning math and reading and writing. Anyhow, that is just my opinion and I am thankful that my 6 1/2 year old is among the older first graders and if very mature and confident and same with my 9 year old 3rd grader! I would rather they be the oldest than the youngest! OH, and when we finally moved to AZ, the cuttoff was once again September 1st, so they are the right age in their new schools. Again, Gabriel is 2 weeks older, but then there are several classmates who waited and extra year too!

I'm THRILLED my daughter can't go to Kindergarten until she is nearly 6. Olivia, too, is way above the curve academically ,and, fortunately, socially as well. I have the same worries about being bored in Kindergarten, too but then I went and "observed" several classes. Kindergarten in our neck of the woods is now bootcamp with little consideration given to the fact that 5 year olds should not be in school 6 hours a day let alone being pushed to the academic limits they now are. Kinda nutty, actually. Seems like society as a whole now sets the standard by the weakest of parental ability and starts making up from there.

In response to your poll, we chose the local Catholic school. Best teachers overall (though there is no assurances they'll always be there), fantastic class size (9 in this years' Kindergarten class as opposed to 29 in the public school Kindergarten class), mandatory parent involvement, uniforms, combined upper classess, it all appealed to us. For $1,150 a year, it's well worth the cost. I never thought of it as elitist, though .

If my daughter has learning issues not well addressed in the school system, I wouldn't hesitate to homeschool. I'm very connected to a large network of homeschooling families, have seen several of my friend's kids graduate. 5 of the 7 went on to college. One got a full ride to Carnegie-Mellon. Guess I'm biased towards homeschooling because I've witnessed it done right over and over again.

Our public school only has 71 kids from 1st to 8th grade
So Were lucky

I voted public because we will definately be going that route. Though we will doing the same thing as Karen with Kylie petition for her to start even though she missed the cut off by 20 days and if it doesn't work go to private for a year (if we can afford it ) My best friend is the kindergarden teacher at the public school here and she is already saying she would love to have Katy in her class and hopes the district lets her in, and agrees that we should put her in when she is 5 not 6. Also if we ever move back to California she would be a year behind starting at 6 as the cut off there is December.

We would like to send Wil to a Waldorf School, which is K-12, if there were one in our area...but there isn't. Our public schools are great though, so that would be my second choice! If we moved and found a Waldorf though, I would only put him in there up until end of junior high. Both DH and I think it's important he goes to public school for High School. Mainly for the social aspect.

We are going public here. For the social interaction and the fact that we are in a state with one of the nations highest regarded education programs. we have magnet schools each specifying in a differant area. You can got to a school that teaches spanish, japanese or french or Mya's school which does the arts and sciences. I think she needs the interaction and the experances for "survival". soo off to public we go!

Obviously I voted for Homeschool since I just started it. It is something I considered from the time I had Kristen. I have serious issues with the public education mainly because it is what I did myself. Those issues were starting with my own children and I knew that I couldn't continue to send them there every day. I'm sure there are some homeschooled children who are not socially adept but I can also tell you I run into public schooled children and adults who attended public school who could learn a thing or two about how to behave in social situations as well. I think it's more about the personality. I don't think it will affect my kids in a negative way. We already have many upcoming social activities planned and I'm finding that it is bringing us closer already. In fact, social situations was one of the considerations of mine for homeschooling. I have not been happy with many social things going on in the public school already.

In fact, Jeanne gave another of the reasons I am homeschooling, the fact that they teach to the average child. Is there even such a thing as an average child? Each child is soooo different and when you try to tailor the education to the "average" many kids lose. It's too hard to give individualized attention to one child when you have a class of 27 and have to deal with trouble makers. Let's face it, they are the ones getting the attention, not the quiet child in the back of the class getting poked with a pencil by one of her friends. When I went in for P/T conferences it didn't seem like they had a clue who Kristen was as an individual. All they cared about were the numbers and she was doing "just fine" so no problem.

I don't feel it is bad for anyone to send their kids to public, private, or what have you, school...it's just not for us.

I should clarify.....we are technically going to public school. We are using a Virtual Academy that is funded by my tax dollars. They provide the curriculum, I have to log 920 hours a year for each child, they take the standardized tests, etc. Many homeschoolers would take issue with me calling what we do homeschooling our children but it's the easiest thing for me to say. We are using a curriculum that some homeschoolers use on their own it's just that we don't have to pay and if I am stuck on something, they have a teacher that I can call and talk to. We have scheduled field trips with the school and with our teachers "class" so there are plenty of chances for socialization as well as the individual activities they are involved in.

Anyway, I think any option can work, it just depends on the family and what you put into it. Oh, I also wanted to add that even with e-schooling you really have to look hard at the programs because there are really some bad options in that route also. Some of the schools have a far inferior curriculum that I would never settle for. The program we are using, Ohio Virtual Academy, was just recently rated #1 in eschools for our state. Bill Bennett (former secretary of education) is on the board with K12, Inc. which is what we are using. It is a very impressive curriculum and I am very confident that I will be providing the best education for my children. I'm so excited about it (as you can probably tell )

Sorry, I didn't mean to go on and on......

We homeschool and we love it! I am from a homeschooling family that has produced some of the most well adjusted,AMAZING and talented people I have the joy of knowing! I am very blessed to be in a situation where we can homeschool and have just as many activities and social interaction as a public school student.

Obviously Tripp is too young to go to school but next year I will be a school teacher at one of our public schools here in the county and fully intend on sending Tripp to a public school as well. There are many positive and negative points that can be made for homeschooling, private schools, and public schools. I think it's really what works best for your family. Of course I'm biased bc I went to public schools all my life and plan on teaching in one. I think public schools have a lot to offer today's youth. I also don't really like what's being discussed about public teachers teaching the "average" student in the classroom. Even though some classrooms have 20-30 students most teachers will tell you that they have an individual relationship with each one of their students and work with each one to develop full potential.

I chose other because we chosen to put Nick in a charter school. He did not recieve the education he should have in Kindergarten from our local public schools. He has thrived in the charter school environment and we are very happy.

If money wern't an option though he would be in private school.

I was homeschool from 2-7th grade and then went to private school for High-School. I had no problem adjusting there or when I went on to college. I had friends in the neighborhood and people would not call me socially shy or inadequate. I can go into a room full of people I don't know and fit right in.

Some of it is a personality thing. I am dealing with knowing Jayme will be 5years8months when she goes to Kindergarten because of her b-date. I am disappointed because if she continues on this trend then she will be ready. I started school at 4yrs 8 months and did just fine. Every child is different and think a parent should be able to chose. In MI if the child is 5 by dec 31st then they must go to kindergarten. I think parents should have the right to wait an extra year though. My son was not ready and should have waited but we couldn't. Luckily we had great teachers last year for 1st grade that brought him up to where he should be.

I will probably send Jayme to a Montessori or private Kindergarten and then have her test the next year into 1st grade when the time comes. I don't want her bored in school.

Even though that's a good 3 years down the road for us, we plan on homeschooling Kayla. Please, no one get mad, but DH and I strongly disagree with sending children to school, public or private, simply because we don't think that children get an adquate education in school. We think they can learn better and focus better in a more comfortable environment...there's no place like home!

The preschool that I am sending The Boy to is a Christian school, but when it comes time for "real" school I will be sending him to public school.

My children go to public schools. I would love for them to go to private schools, but then I would be working 24/7 to pay for them (lol). And as far as homeschooling, I really wish I had the patience. (but MommyToAshley, I think you would be a good candidate and you are right Ashley is very birght for her age)

I think the important thing is, whatever road you chose with your child, you make their education a #1 priority and stay invovled.

**** Now I have to brag a second, my oldest DD, Brittany who is a freshman, ranked #1 out of 387 freshman in her class first quarter with a 4.2 GPA. We are really pround of Her

I disagree I was home schooled and I didn't like it I don't feel like I learned everything I needed to learn it varies for every child. You can't always say that your child WON'T get an adequate education because that is NOT always true some children learn better at school.
Now I think it would be different if you said that you didn't think it would be right for YOUR child but not right for you but not to say that about all children...

Alyssa will be going to public school we have a WONDERFUL school system all except our middle school and I'm hoping by time Alyssa is there it will be better if not we will consider something else until high school. I want Alyssa to have the experience of school that you don't get when your homeschooled things that I really wanted to do!

This post has been edited by alyssa'smommy on Nov 20 2005, 02:11 PM

Our girls currently attend a private Jewish school....and we plan to put the boys in there when they are old enough. The school goes Pre-K through 8th grade....once the kids hit high school - I'm not sure what we're doing (and DD#1 is in 8th grade this year).....the school district we live in isn't that great - we can't afford to move - and there are no private Jewish high schools in the area.