Wowza!

This is a bit extreme.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_...hool_dance_flap
And if he's involved with alcohol or sex they will expel him...how would they find out?
I had a friend in junior high who also went to a Baptist school in Ohio...we were on the synchronized swim team together over the summer at JCC. I asked her if she wanted to go to the movies with me and some friends of mine and she said she's not allowed to go to movies. I asked why and she said that it's a rule at her school that no one goes to movies. This was summer time and school was not in session. I wondered and still wonder to this day why schools get to dictate what anyone does outside school grounds and school hours.
I wouldn't last a moment at a school like this, not one moment, I'd organize a fullout revolt among the students.
A song comes to mind--"we don't need no education...we don't need no thought control...."

I agree that making such a big deal over prom is extreme, HOWEVER, if a school says a kid can get in trouble for things they do outside of school and you don't like it, don't send your kid there. I know of many Christian schools who make it very clear in their handbook that certain behaviors (sex and alcohol) are unacceptable for it's students, in or out of school, including the school I attended through sixth grade. Mostly because those behaviors are opposite of the moral values that school teaches, and because the kids are seen as representatives of that. No, you can't legislate morality but again, don't like the schools policies? Don't send your kid there....if you choose to send your child to a religious school I don't think it should come as any suprise that they're going to have a pretty hefty stance on things like that.

This post has been edited by luvmykids on May 8 2009, 08:59 AM

I understand, Monica, but this boy is graduating...apparently he's lived up to their policies up until now...I see no reason to punish him for having a gf who goes to public school.
Also, I went to a very religious Jewish school for a while when we first moved to the US from the former USSR and while all food brought into the school had to be kosher, I can't imagine them dictating that all students who go there must keep kosher at home.
I think it is up to parents to detemine what rules their kids should live by and not the school...to me, that is overstepping the school's boundaries and imposing on the parents, much like rules about how if you take your child out of school for vaca during the year s/he'll have to repeat the year or go to summer school...that too is imposing because if I want to take my kids out of school and they can make up the missed school work then it's none of the school's business.
I guess I take issue with rules that go beyond their scope. I can accept certain rules applying at school, during school hours and on school grounds but anything beyond that is imo way over the top and way out of line.

Our public school systems have very strict rules like that, so I don't think it's limited to private schools. If you get in trouble with the law you can get kicked off the sports teams, etc. I know in HS when DH got his DUI he was so fearful they'd find out and he'd be kicked off the baseball/basketball teams, but he got lucky. There were lots of kids who weren't so lucky.

Even if this guy has been good all the way up until now, if he knew the rules he should follow them until he is out of school. It may be harsh, but even in the real world, lots of people can lose their jobs over doing stupid things - it only teaches the kids that they have to follow the rules.

I do agree that the punishment for this guy is harsh. He's taking his GF to her prom at her school, right? So I guess I'm confused on how they would punish him for that. Now I can see if he did anything wrong at their school, or like I mentioned above doing something unlawful. I dunno.

This post has been edited by coasterqueen on May 8 2009, 09:58 AM

And do they think he will continue these behaviors, or lack thereof, when he gets the heck out of there?? So many of the kids that I knew who were so "under the thumb" went totally wild once they left the nest, either to college or just out on their own. I just don't get it.

ITA on the thought that if you don't agree with the school's policies then do not send the kid there.

LOL on the Pink Floyd reference there Jennifer. I had "Footloose" in my head.

I agree, but again, if you don't like it, don't send your kid there. I'm pretty sure the school is very upfront about what it considers unacceptable behavior even outside of school....Do I think this school is being extreme? Yes. However, given that it's a fundamental Baptist organization, entirely against dancing etc, I don't find it all that shocking.

If I were to fork out a usually large chunk of change to send my kid to a school, I am making the choice to abide by it's policies.

Karen, a DUI is a very serious offense, I don't think it can be compared to going to a prom at another school.
I can see kids getting kicked off sports teams for breaking the law but what's up with monitoring their private habits as long as they follow the law?
And I thought about "Footloose" too, Mary, but to me this is classic mind control so Pink Floyd got first dibs on quoting lyrics....

I agree, but again, if you don't like it, don't send your kid there. I'm pretty sure the school is very upfront about what it considers unacceptable behavior even outside of school....Do I think this school is being extreme? Yes. However, given that it's a fundamental Baptist organization, entirely against dancing etc, I don't find it all that shocking.

If I were to fork out a usually large chunk of change to send my kid to a school, I am making the choice to abide by it's policies.

Monica, when your kids get to be teenagers they may or may not agree with your policies or the school you send them to. I realize that as long as they live under your roof yada yada yada but if ths boy is about to graduate and go out on his own and he thinks going to a dance is fine then what does this school hope to accomplish other than take away a fun night and a memory?

I agree it is a harsh punishment, but agreeing with Monica that if they knew about the rules and chose to follow them all this time, this time shouldn't be any different.

I can see the kid not wanting to follow the rules - boy, can I see that, he likely had no say in the whole matter - but now the parents jumping in to say the rules should not apply to my kid, well, too late bucko, you signed the boy up for it!!

And as a side note, proms are highly overpriced and overrated. At least they were 25 years ago...but that has no relevance to the discussion...it's just giving me more bad school flashbacks!!!

I agree, but again, if you don't like it, don't send your kid there. I'm pretty sure the school is very upfront about what it considers unacceptable behavior even outside of school....Do I think this school is being extreme? Yes. However, given that it's a fundamental Baptist organization, entirely against dancing etc, I don't find it all that shocking.

If I were to fork out a usually large chunk of change to send my kid to a school, I am making the choice to abide by it's policies.

Monica, when your kids get to be teenagers they may or may not agree with your policies or the school you send them to. I realize that as long as they live under your roof yada yada yada but if ths boy is about to graduate and go out on his own and he thinks going to a dance is fine then what does this school hope to accomplish other than take away a fun night and a memory?

I don't have any problem with Prom, dancing, whatever. But, this school (and most fundamentalists) obviously takes a very firm stance on it's beliefs....if they think dancing is a sin, then obviously they mean it. I'm sure they're not trying to be party poopers, they're trying to back up what they teach and however misguided you or I think they are, you could say that is some degree of integrity.

I agree, but again, if you don't like it, don't send your kid there. I'm pretty sure the school is very upfront about what it considers unacceptable behavior even outside of school....Do I think this school is being extreme? Yes. However, given that it's a fundamental Baptist organization, entirely against dancing etc, I don't find it all that shocking.

If I were to fork out a usually large chunk of change to send my kid to a school, I am making the choice to abide by it's policies.

Monica, when your kids get to be teenagers they may or may not agree with your policies or the school you send them to. I realize that as long as they live under your roof yada yada yada but if ths boy is about to graduate and go out on his own and he thinks going to a dance is fine then what does this school hope to accomplish other than take away a fun night and a memory?

I don't have any problem with Prom, dancing, whatever. But, this school (and most fundamentalists) obviously takes a very firm stance on it's beliefs....if they think dancing is a sin, then obviously they mean it. I'm sure they're not trying to be party poopers, they're trying to back up what they teach and however misguided you or I think they are, you could say that is some degree of integrity.

Monica, I agree that this boy's parents shouldn't have sent him to this school if they think he should be allowed to go this prom and/or to dance or break the rules. BUT, I take major issue with indoctrination and place great value on teaching children to think for themselves, starting from the earliest age possible. I think these sorts of beliefs would have much more value if they were taught and encouraged but that at the end of the day, the children were encouraged to think for themselves and were told that they would be trusted to follow the moral code taught them and give them the opportunity to explore it themselves.
These sorts of fundamentalist schools spit out a bunch of mindless drones who don't have any concept of critical thinking and that is ultimately what I take issue with.
I also think that given he's 18, or so I would presume, given he's graduating HS, he should have some say in the matter and not be treated like an object who is incapable of making any of his own decisions.

I agree, but again, if you don't like it, don't send your kid there. I'm pretty sure the school is very upfront about what it considers unacceptable behavior even outside of school....Do I think this school is being extreme? Yes. However, given that it's a fundamental Baptist organization, entirely against dancing etc, I don't find it all that shocking.

If I were to fork out a usually large chunk of change to send my kid to a school, I am making the choice to abide by it's policies.

Monica, when your kids get to be teenagers they may or may not agree with your policies or the school you send them to. I realize that as long as they live under your roof yada yada yada but if ths boy is about to graduate and go out on his own and he thinks going to a dance is fine then what does this school hope to accomplish other than take away a fun night and a memory?

I don't have any problem with Prom, dancing, whatever. But, this school (and most fundamentalists) obviously takes a very firm stance on it's beliefs....if they think dancing is a sin, then obviously they mean it. I'm sure they're not trying to be party poopers, they're trying to back up what they teach and however misguided you or I think they are, you could say that is some degree of integrity.

Monica, I agree that this boy's parents shouldn't have sent him to this school if they think he should be allowed to go this prom and/or to dance or break the rules. BUT, I take major issue with indoctrination and place great value on teaching children to think for themselves, starting from the earliest age possible. I think these sorts of beliefs would have much more value if they were taught and encouraged but that at the end of the day, the children were encouraged to think for themselves and were told that they would be trusted to follow the moral code taught them and give them the opportunity to explore it themselves.
These sorts of fundamentalist schools spit out a bunch of mindless drones who don't have any concept of critical thinking and that is ultimately what I take issue with.
I also think that given he's 18, or so I would presume, given he's graduating HS, he should have some say in the matter and not be treated like an object who is incapable of making any of his own decisions.

I think that is a moot point, most parents are aware of what the school will be teaching with regard to doctrine when they sign up.....some parents send their kids to a religious school strictly for the fact it's private and thought to be a better education, but the majority of them send them to the one they ultimately choose because they WANT their children to be taught that way which means your opinion or mine doesn't really matter.

FWIW, if I could afford to send my kids to a Christian school I would, because I like the thought of the morals I hope to instill in them being reinforced somewhere beside the home, and them being around kids from like minded families. Does that mean I want them brainwashed? No. I went to Christian schools (very strict ones, where a high schooler got expelled for going to a Kiss concert) until high school and I consider myself far from a mindless drone.

You're right, morals always come down to the choices a person makes for themselves but that is kind of the point...what is the "right" thing to do here, do what he wants to do, or follow the rules he's agreed to follow?

eta: Don't get me wrong, I think it's a little extreme, but then again most fundamentalists are, no matter what the religion or denomination. However, that is their choice and as much as I don't really agree with the what, I do understand the why.

This post has been edited by luvmykids on May 8 2009, 12:13 PM

I'm wondering how this family got all the way through the school before realizing its values weren't a good fit with theirs??? Ita with Monica that it's the school's prerogative, as a private entity, to require its students and their families to adhere to whatever ridiculous policies it dreams up. It's no place I could deal with, but they signed on the dotted line, and sad as it is for a kid who's just trying to participate in an American right of passage, for this organization apparently it's decadent debauchery in the hands of the devil. I don't really feel all that sorry for the family, tbh. And, if they really feel that strongly about their convictions, let the kid go to the prom and just not walk in graduation. Life is about choices, that's a lesson the kid needs to learn as well.

I read this...
Frost, a senior at Heritage Christian School in northwest Ohio, agreed to the school's rules when he signed a statement of cooperation at the beginning of the year, principal Tim England said.

and thought, he knew about the rules himself and agreed to sign the paper. Not just his parents, but himself...someone who is 18 or nearing 18. He knew what he signed.

Then I read this...
If Frost is involved with alcohol or sex at the prom, he will be expelled, England said.

and it kind of angered me. Not because I think it would be ok to be involved with the sex and alcohol, but because they aren't even giving him the benefit of the doubt. They automatically insinuate that proms are all about sex and alcohol. Sure, some people are all about that, but not everyone. I just don't like when someone blanket statements something and assumes a whole "shinangan" plays out the same way for everyone. I don't know if I"m making sense.

I do agree that if he wasn't serious about the rules of the school then the family should have never signed on for it then. However, I also think that when a school/parents in general hold the reigns too tight on a child, they will act out in rebellion even more...especially if the rules are a bit absurd, IMO.

I'm on the fence in general.

Yeah, I understand that he signed and agreed to the rules at the beginning of the year, but then if that was already in the rules and had punishments why did the principle go to the church board to see what should be done? Obviously this was NOT in the rules, so therefore they are punishing him because they just don't agree. He should be able to graduate, this is a ridiculous thing IMO.

Wait, I had to go back and when I did I read this..

England acknowledged signing the form but warned Frost there would be consequences if he attended the dance.

SO, the principal signed the form, allowing him to go???

That's not cool. If there would be consequences for going, he never should have signed the permission slip, IMO.