sister w/o kids insists on perfection from mine, Please advise!

My sister and her partner do not have children. They live quite far from us, and she, my only sibling, has made it clear that she wants to be closer (emotionally) to my two children. Last summer my daughters attended camp near their home, and, as we had done the previous summer, we stayed at their house for a few days preceeding summer camp, and returned for a couple of days after camp.

My sister often uses a very in-your-face, superior tone of voice. She never spoke this way to the girls when they were little, but now that they are teenagers, she seems to use it more often. She often gives them "advice," but to them it sounds more like criticism. Several times before camp, her well-meaning "advice" had them nearly in tears. Each time, however, I took her side, and insisted that she was correct. I thought the kids should be thicker-skinned. They should learn to take criticism.

Privately, they told me they thought she was mean. Privately, I told them that I understood their hurt feelings, but that they know that she loves them, means only to help them, but that she just doesn't know how to talk to kids. (What I didn't tell them, was that she talks the same way to me and has been hurting my feelings for years...)

When camp was over, we returned to her house. The kids felt right at home, put their luggage down in "their" bedroom, and came out to talk with us. Shortly afterwards, my younger daughter asked if she could take a shower. Both my daughter and I remember this as being a general question, not posed to anyone in particular. In fact, I did not respond to it when she asked. (My sister remembered it differently.) When no one answered her, she asked, "Mom, can I take a shower?" I said, It's fine with me-e." (That two-syllable sing-song "me" that means, if anyone else objects, speak now...)

Later, when the four of us were in the kitchen, (my kids, my sister and myself,) my older daughter asked if she could use the computer. No one answered, AGAIN. So,she asked AGAIN. Then my sister pounced. "WHO were you asking? It sounded like you were asking your mother. This is MY house and it's MY computer and you should be asking ME to use it NOT your mother!" Then she turned to my other daughter, pointed her finger at her and said, " AND, FYI, when you 're a guest at someone's house and you want to use their shower, you should ask the HOSTESS for permission, NOT your MOTHER!!!"

Needlesstosay, both girls were mortified and escaped into their bedroom, holding back tears. I had a rush of feelings and thoughts. I was actually taken back by my sister's comments. I felt that this time she had been too harsh and that I would be betraying my kids if I didn't speak out. I felt that, in fact, the person she was really criticizing was me.

I told her that it was not the kid's fault. It was clearly me she should blame. I apologized that I had not brought my kids up properly. That they did not have manners that she approved of. We could not live up to her expectations. But finally, I told her I thought that we were FAMILY! I did not realize that my daughter needed to ask permission to use her shower. I insisted that my daughter's request for permission was not to USE the shower,because she already thought that she had permission to use it. Rather, when she asked, " Can I take a shower" she meant the unspoken "now" as in, "Can I take a shower at right now?" Which in my opinion is appropriate to ask her mother, not her aunt.

Yes, my older daughter should have asked her permission to use the computer. She had assumed she could still use it since she had been allowed to use it before, but she should have asked again. I should have had her ask my sister. Again, I was sorry that our manners were not what they should be.

This matter of manners and kids and my sister has a history. I'll never forget when the kids were much younger and we visited her. It had been a long day and was now a late night. We went out for dinner to a nice, casual neighborhood restaurant they often frequented. We were seated in a booth, and after my youngest, who was then about 7, finished eating, she rested her head on my lap and fell asleep. I was so happy she wasn't whining or running around!! Later, my sister reprimanded ME for allowing her to do that! She had been embarassed by us, and insisted that children in her city do not behave that way. As the younger sister who has always wanted her big sister's approval, I felt I had done something really wrong. I was hurt that she thought I had embarrased her.

I do not have a problem with other people reprimanding my kids if they are misbehaving. I do not have a problem with other adults trying to give them advice that will help them thrive in this world. I do however, think that it should not be done in a way that belittles or antagonizes the child or teenager. One must allow the child to save face. A little humor or a kind word will go further to achieve the desired result. Certainly, when trying to develop a close relationship with a niece or nephew, embarassing reprimands are not going to help.

Anyway, I guess I really want to know what people think about this. How would you have handled any of these situations. Has anyone had similar experiences? How have you handled them? Are there any etiquette experts out there that can comment as to proper manners of children in the homes of aunts and uncles? Is it OK, or is it terribly bad form for a kid to lay down in a restaurant? I still really, honestly, do not know. I appreciate all of your help. Thanks!

I think what your sister did (regarding the shower incident) was downright rude! If she had a problem with it, when your daughter first asked you she should have nicely said "Since this is my house, I would appreciate if you asked me for permission instead of your mother." There was no need to be condescending or hurt anyone's feelings.

I think you are quite right in observing that if she had had a problem, she could have said so in a much more constructive, positive way. And you are very astute to point out that it was she, in fact, who was rude. Thanks for your insightful comments.

I don't know if I could have bit my tongue as well as you did in those situations.

I do think that she was out of line and could have handled things in a much more tactful manner. And I don't think you should EVER apologize for the way you raised your children. Next time perhaps you'd be best to respond with just a simple "Well I'm sorry that you think that." Then I'd turn silently, collect my daughters and my belongings and head to the nearest hotel.

I would stop going over there. Obviously its not enjoyable, so why subject yourself & your children to a situation where you are so uncomfortable?

Your sister is rude. Obviously there was an easy way to resolve that situation.

Are we related?! Seriously! Your sister sounds like she is my sister. My sister is married and has no children, not by choice, kwim?

My 3 are under 10, but my sister talks to them the same way as yours. We don't go over to her house much at all, but when she comes to ours, she acts like she is a drill sergeant!

Your sister is rude and annoying. When I have GUESTS over at my house, they don't need to ASK to have a shower. WTH is that about???
My guests are free to do as they please as long as it doesn't include something we ourselves wouldn't do in our home (smoking, drugs etc...).

My friends are at my house every weekend. And they have thier own drawer in the bathroom. With all of thier shampoo and conditioner and tooth brushes and all in it. They dont need to ask to go in there and take a shower. WTH is that all about. I just think she is RUDE. Sorry its just my opinion.

I think there's a lot going on with your sister: resentment that she didn't have kids, repressed anger that you did, translating into judgment of the job you've done. She seems out of touch with her own feelings and fairly abusive. I'm sorry you've had such a difficult relationship over the years and that she can't grow up and get over it. Focus on letting the kids know that she's been unreasonable, appears to be emotionally unstable and that you approve of their manners and think they are well brought up. Don't accept the shame or doubt that your sister projects onto you---they sound like good kids and you sound like a good parent. Any chance you'll stop visiting your sister for overnights? It should be obvious to her why.

Wow. I just signed on again and read all of the wonderful comments that have been posted here. It feels great to have the support that you have all given, the reaffirmation of what I really believe to be true. Deep down, I know that I have done a good job with my kids. I have felt that she was out-of- line and that I tried to take the high road.

You have all pointed out, quite accurately, that SHE was the rude one.

I like the advice that I should have quietly said I was sorry she felt that way, packed and left. I wish I had done that, Kentuckychick, it would have been much wiser.

And DansMom is right-on-the-money. She is every one of the things you described. She is resentful, angry, and abusive, and, though she seems to psychoanalyze (sp?) everyone around her, she is unable to see herself clearly. I absolutely love your statemnet that I should not accept the shame and doubt that she projects on me. You are so very right. Do you do this for a living???

There are two sides to every story, and I am trying to be "fair and balanced." If I really try to see this incident through my sister's eyes, I think she would argue that what she really got upest about was that my kids came to ME to ask permission to do something in her house, not that she thinks they need permission to use the shower, computer, etc. I think she was (1) hurt that they didn't feel comfortable enough to come to HER; (2) trying to teach them that the proper thing to do when in someone's else's house is to ask the homeowner, not their parent for permission to do whatever. Personally, though, I don't know that it is realistic to expect that from a kid. Most kids, when they are at someone else's house will ask their friend to ask their parent, etc. I realize that at some point, some age, they should start to get over the fear (?) or shyness that prevents them from feeling comfortable making requests of other adults besides their parents. Of course, there are some very self-assured kids who feel perfectly comfortable asking for a drink or whatever when they are at someone's house, but not many....No matter what her point really was, her comments were said in a very hurtful, accusatory way. As everyone has picked-up the key was that she was rude and there was no reason to be. She could have said the same thing in a nicer way.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL!!!

Are you a shrink? Can you be mine?

No, I'm just old, I've had some counseling and I've read a lot of self-help books.

Tracy- We're not "old", we're WISE!
I think Tracy (Dansmom) is right as well. I really think the next time you're inclined to visit your sister, a hotel would be a good idea. She clearly does not know how to relate to kids or how to facilitate the close relationship she claims to covet. The story about the restaurant was appalling, imo. Kids get tired- what did she expect you to do- prop her eyelids open with toothpicks?
Some people just don't like or understand kids. That's fine- if it was me, I'd minimize the amount of time you spend together, or maybe, just visit her w/o them.
And never, ever, feel the need to apologize to someone on behalf of your kids unless you agree with them. I agree with your kids- I don't think I'd want to be around her either. Sorry, I know she's your sister, but your kids come first imo. Good luck!

If she treats them that way, why would the feel comfortable around her? It's probably like walking on egg shells for them. And YOU'RE the mom, if she has a problem, I think she should address YOU to take care of it, unless there's an understanding there.

For instance, I'm around my nieces a TON. The 8 yo (Megan) can some times act up a bit when we're in public. Like we were at the fair sitting in an airconditioned tent while it poured down rain outside. The baby (Alyx) was out of the stroller walking around the little area, Meg decided she wanted to sit in the stroller (which ticks Alyx off b/c it's HER stroller ) Cyndi (my SIL) told her to get out of the stroller and sit on the bench. The moment she turned to feed Alyx something Meg's back in the stroller. Since I was paying attention (she was in front of me) I said "Megan! What did your mom just tell you?!?" She got out of the stroller rather quickly. Those are the only times I pipe in really. B/c they're NOT my kids, so not really my place KWIM?

Finally, I think your sister needs to learn to get respect she has to give respect.