Advice....

Lately Aron has been not so nice with me and now Bea(his GF ) has joined into it... I am fed up with it and i need to have a talk with him... Now what do i mean by him not being nice because he is always a butt to me! Well he is just very rude and snotty to me and I am not tolerating it anymore!!!! To me I have always wanted a civil relationship with him and any of his Gf's because of jenna. thats why i dont allow marcus to be nasty to aron in front of jenna or to aron because i just dont want a big huge fued happening!

my question is this.. i need to talk to him and tell him that he needs to start to treat me and talk to me with respect or else there is no contact with jenna. I am jennas mom and he needs to realize that i am in his life until he doesnt want jenna in his!!! Bea has to realize that I do not want him back i have moved on and she needs to start to treat me with respect as well... should i do this alone without bea there or with them both? i find when bea is in teh room and such or there when he is on the phone( i can hear her inthe background) he becomes an bumb to me but when she is no where near him he treats me like he used to before she entered into the pic. I refuse to let anyone talk to me tyhis way EXPECIALLY aron and bea!!!!!

would you say somethign or just leave it be? Am i over reacting? Marcus heard it first hand how he is because when i was in teh hospital getting tests done i asked marcus to call aron and when he picked up the phone he figured it was me and said WHAT!!!!! then when aron realized it was marcus he changed his tone big time!!!!

This post has been edited by JennasMommy on Mar 25 2008, 10:15 PM

First....I wouldn't use not seeing Jenna as leverage in this...Yes, you are her mother and deserve respect, but there are other ways around Aaron besides cutting off contact with jenna...as long as he is a good daddy and she loves spending time with him then that would be punishing her in a way too. I would sit Aaron down alone and tell him how it is, then advise him to tell his girlfriend to butt out and get over herself. If he continues to be a butt...then I would just start arranging for him to pick Jenna up through a 3rd party and go no contact with you except to discuss urgent matters about Jenna.

Sounds like he is being a butt because he knows you have moved on and the grass he use to have is looking a little greener.....Hes jealous....And she is being a butt because she is probably realizing it.

Basically i would just remind him that keeping a civil relationship is best for his daughter. If he wants what's best for he he will comply. obviously your not gonna make it about the two of you and jelousy and all that jazz ,it will just make him more irritable anyway, the big baby. As for Bea, who cares? she's obviously not a perment fixture and as long as she doesn't bad mouth you in frount of jenna I wouldn't care what she says or tries to make Aaron do. he's a big boy and make his own choises on how to treat you. If he is so eaily influanced by her it just shows his immiturity and the best thing to do is just continue to be respectful to him and he'll feel dumb for being mean. Brad can be a big poo pooo head on the phone but he is nice in person because Mya is there. I could give a rats how he talks on the phone to me or how tabitha has him treat me ( which is pretty much the same way as Bea) . As long as he is mr. sunshine in person none of that is any sweat off my back.

i agree that i shouldnt use jenna as a leverage to get respect and to keep her away i guess im just sick of the attitude im getting!

and the thing is if im dropping jenna off at thier house ( they live together now) if bea is in teh room or ear shot away he will talkt o me with no respect inf ront of jenna as well. I guess thats why i need this to end because i dont need jenna seeing that. If bea isnt there then he is mr.nice. So yes i dont care what she says to him about me and makes him do to me or treat me behind jennas back but when he is doign it to me in front of jenna thats where i draw the line!!

ita i would tell him he is only hurting his daughter and if he doesn't care bout it then that's fine but it will only bite him in the *** later.

Well he's a jerk.. BUT if you want him to treat you with respect than you need to make sure you're treating him with the same. (Not saying you aren't). I'd sit them down and tell them that for Jenna's sake you'd like to have civil relationship and right now you don't feel like that is the case.

Good luck, I'm sure it's not easy.

oh believe me my tongue is sore from me biting it. I give aron the respect that i have always did in front of jenna, and behind jennas back and in front of marcus. Marcus gives aron respect and even bea in front and behind jennas back.I am not rude or anything to him. UNLESS he pees me off then thats a diff story..LOL. But i show bea the respect because she is in jennas life and will be another mother figure to jenna. I bite my tongue if they treat me like poop in front of jenna but once i leave i am in teras because i am worried that they are saying things to her about me.

Gpd Aron is such a huge butt! I would definitely have a talk with him and Bea doesn't need to be present IMHO, I'm sure he'll let her know what was said anyways. If he doesn't change I'd be taking some drastic measures.

Its wrong to keep his child from him b/c you dont like the way he addresses you. And if he has any legal visitation rights, its contempt. And if he doesnt, and you keep her, and he goes to court, and you continue to do it, it will be contempt. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a judge's reprimand for withholding my child from his/her father because I thought he was not polite enough to me. Its also not what is best for your child. Even if you & Aron do not get along, even if he is rude to you, its ALWAYS better for a child to have TWO parents in their life. I know you think it will be "one big happy family" when you marry Marcus, and I am sure it will...but he still isnt her father, and she still needs her FATHER in her life.

Frankly, you can have a talk with him, but you can not control him. He is an adult and if that is the way he wants to treat you....you pretty much arent going to be able to do anything about it.

IMO you are giving him way too much power over you. Ignore it. Be a bigger person. My ex & I are civil but sometimes I'm rude to him (and I'm woman enough to admit that) and sometimes he is to me. But he isnt my problem, and MY behavior is the ONLY behavior I can control. So I try to be as nice & friendly to HIM as I can, and he generally does the same. When I feel his behavior is out of line, I may mention that to him, but I would never, EVER dream of hurting my children by keeping them from their father. You need to be more mature than that.

I'd have a short, sweet little chat with him about how you would like to make sure YOU always treat HIM with respect, and you would appreciate it if he would treat YOU with respect, and then I'd forget about it, and act as nice as possible to him, even when he isnt acting that way to you.

ok im not goign to be keeping her from her dad! I am not like that. if you read my post after the second reply back to me you will see that I know i cant do that!

I know she needs both her parents why the heck do you think I put up with his crap?!?! Because I feel she needs her dad. And yes i do believe we will be a happy family and she will have 2 dads.. her dad and a step dad!!!

I AM NOT Keeping jenna from her dad and to call me immature is hurtful!

and that is what i was going to do is have a small chat with him. And yes he should be giving me respect i am her mom just as i give him respect and bea needs to also just as marcus does! You may not think that way with your ex but that how i FEEL!

Shelly - set up times and dates for him to take her... drop her off, you don't even need to talk to him beyond the "I'll pick her up at..." or "drop her off at..."

Don't put up with it. You can effectively cut someone off from that behavoiur with some underhanded tips. Repeat him... if he says something stupid, which he's prone to do, repeat it to him. As in...

Aron: Yeah Bea's sick so I can't take her
you: so you're refusing to see your daughter because your gf's sick?
Aron: well it's just not a good idea
you: well , fine... you tell her that you can't take her out soemwhere because you'd rather stay home with your sick gf. *hand Jenna the phone*

Or if he says something rude, just give him a look, and be all like wow, I can't believe you actually said that. or just plain Ouch. And walk away. Or hang up.

YOUR part in all this is to make the connection between Jenna and her father. Your part is NOT to take his crap and be stomped on. Your part is to offer him visitation. If he chooses not to take it.. document it. Document everything. EVERYTHING.

If he can't be nice to you, then just leave him be. Strictly call him about things that concern him... you have full custody. It's not like you have to call him to get her a haircut or buy her clothes, right? Send him the bills for some of her stuff by registered mail. you don't HAVE to see him or talk to him further than necessary...

keep in mind that sometimes the bare minimum conversation is better than a lot of negative conversation.

Sorry he's such a jerk.

I'm sending you hugs because I understand that is a difficult situation you are in. My ex and I weren't very civil in the begining (divorce was a long drawn out process for us), but as time went by and we both met other people that made us happy we starting treating each other more like acquantinces and forgot about our history together, we talk minimum but when we do we arer just as polite as you would be to any other adult. YOU deserve that same respect from Aron!

Sorry that you are going through this. I would just have a chat with him to make you feel better, it may not change things, but at least you can say your peace and get it off your chest. He is such a jerk.

Its really not fair to Jenna to put her in the middle of the ADULT's problems.

its not OK that Aron wont take her in a situation like that, but she also she not be put into the middle.

Its really not fair to Jenna to put her in the middle of the ADULT's problems.

its not OK that Aron wont take her in a situation like that, but she also she not be put into the middle.

i completely disagree. i don't think that is putting Jenna in the middle of anything "adult". i think it is the access parent's RESPONSIBILITY to explain to his child why he/she is unable to make the scheduled visit.

you have no idea how many times my ex ditched his kids for a party or the latest gf and i was left holding the bag telling the boys why daddy wasn't coming. well, my boys are now 11 and almost 10 and their perception for a long time was that it was ME keeping their dad away. i was the one calling HIM every few days begging him to see them cuz they missed him. thankfully, we are quite open and they now understand, from both their dad and i, what the reality was. we both love them, we have made mistakes.. it's life.

as for the OP, i agree denying access is the wrong way to get ur point across. i would definitely talk to them about it.. probably separately. i don't think it's right for any parent to talk down to another in front of a child. what are you teaching the child?! tell Aron he can speak to you with respect or not at all. let him know that you won't disrespect him in front of his daughter and he should do the same... and live by it. kids listen even when you think they are not. and for Bea, reassure her you have no interest in Aron other than raising a child together and now that she is part of Jenna's life, you want an amicable relationship. maybe Aron is feeding her a bunch of BS that you are evil or something.. show her ur not. ur just a mom who wants what's best for her daughter.

hang in there, Shelley.

Its really not fair to Jenna to put her in the middle of the ADULT's problems.

its not OK that Aron wont take her in a situation like that, but she also she not be put into the middle.

i completely disagree. i don't think that is putting Jenna in the middle of anything "adult". i think it is the access parent's RESPONSIBILITY to explain to his child why he/she is unable to make the scheduled visit.

you have no idea how many times my ex ditched his kids for a party or the latest gf and i was left holding the bag telling the boys why daddy wasn't coming. well, my boys are now 11 and almost 10 and their perception for a long time was that it was ME keeping their dad away. i was the one calling HIM every few days begging him to see them cuz they missed him. thankfully, we are quite open and they now understand, from both their dad and i, what the reality was. we both love them, we have made mistakes.. it's life.

as for the OP, i agree denying access is the wrong way to get ur point across. i would definitely talk to them about it.. probably separately. i don't think it's right for any parent to talk down to another in front of a child. what are you teaching the child?! tell Aron he can speak to you with respect or not at all. let him know that you won't disrespect him in front of his daughter and he should do the same... and live by it. kids listen even when you think they are not. and for Bea, reassure her you have no interest in Aron other than raising a child together and now that she is part of Jenna's life, you want an amicable relationship. maybe Aron is feeding her a bunch of BS that you are evil or something.. show her ur not. ur just a mom who wants what's best for her daughter.

hang in there, Shelley.

Exactly... it's not putting the child in the middle, it's putting the responsibility on Aron.

Why should Shelly be the one to be always giving the bad news? Aron needs to be put on the spot...and while it may hurt Jenna to be handed the phone and tld that she can't go, it won't hurt her ANY MORE than if it was Shelly telling her that daddy can't take her, yet again.

I say if there are plans that Aron is to take Jenna, then he should take her. Shelly should dress her and get her ready to go... and GO. Then it will be up to Aron to tell Jenna that So Sorry, Can't Take You After All! At least the perception would be that mommy did her part.

It's not putting the kid in the middle... it's making them deal with life, and the realities that life sucks and is unfair...something that they will have to deal with for the rest of their life, and there is no point in sugar coating it - because any wich way you look at it, if Shelly sucks it up for Jenna's sake... it's really not doing Jenna any favors.

Its really not fair to Jenna to put her in the middle of the ADULT's problems.

its not OK that Aron wont take her in a situation like that, but she also she not be put into the middle.

i completely disagree. i don't think that is putting Jenna in the middle of anything "adult". i think it is the access parent's RESPONSIBILITY to explain to his child why he/she is unable to make the scheduled visit.

you have no idea how many times my ex ditched his kids for a party or the latest gf and i was left holding the bag telling the boys why daddy wasn't coming. well, my boys are now 11 and almost 10 and their perception for a long time was that it was ME keeping their dad away. i was the one calling HIM every few days begging him to see them cuz they missed him. thankfully, we are quite open and they now understand, from both their dad and i, what the reality was. we both love them, we have made mistakes.. it's life.

as for the OP, i agree denying access is the wrong way to get ur point across. i would definitely talk to them about it.. probably separately. i don't think it's right for any parent to talk down to another in front of a child. what are you teaching the child?! tell Aron he can speak to you with respect or not at all. let him know that you won't disrespect him in front of his daughter and he should do the same... and live by it. kids listen even when you think they are not. and for Bea, reassure her you have no interest in Aron other than raising a child together and now that she is part of Jenna's life, you want an amicable relationship. maybe Aron is feeding her a bunch of BS that you are evil or something.. show her ur not. ur just a mom who wants what's best for her daughter.

hang in there, Shelley.

Exactly... it's not putting the child in the middle, it's putting the responsibility on Aron.

Why should Shelly be the one to be always giving the bad news? Aron needs to be put on the spot...and while it may hurt Jenna to be handed the phone and tld that she can't go, it won't hurt her ANY MORE than if it was Shelly telling her that daddy can't take her, yet again.

I say if there are plans that Aron is to take Jenna, then he should take her. Shelly should dress her and get her ready to go... and GO. Then it will be up to Aron to tell Jenna that So Sorry, Can't Take You After All! At least the perception would be that mommy did her part.

It's not putting the kid in the middle... it's making them deal with life, and the realities that life sucks and is unfair...something that they will have to deal with for the rest of their life, and there is no point in sugar coating it - because any wich way you look at it, if Shelly sucks it up for Jenna's sake... it's really not doing Jenna any favors.

No, I still disagree. I would NEVER do that to my kids. On the rare occasion my ex has had to cancel, I tell my kids "I'm sorry, daddy got called into work. I am sure he will call you later to talk to you." Then I'm not putting them in the middle and I'm not the bad guy & my ex isnt the bad guy. I mean I dont know why Aron cancels, but my ex generally doesnt unless he HAS to, and really, I am sure Shelly may not agree with him cancelling but his reasons could be very legitimate (and maybe they arent, I dont know...) even if she doesnt feel they are.

In fact, to avoid situations like that, a better thing to do would be to NOT TELL your children they are going with the other parent until right before they get there, or even when they get there.

I do that a lot, too. I dont tell my kids until my ex calls & says he is on his way.

If my ex had a habit of not showing up, I would tell him not to mention it to my child anymore, that I would handle it.

I dont know, I guess I just have a REALLY different way to handle things than some of you guys. I have no reason to make my ex the bad guy to my kids, no matter WHAT he is doing. I always want my kids to love and respect their father, even if he is not father of the year. I dont talk bad about him, I try not to make him the bad guy, I dont want the kids hurt or upset by what he is doing/not doing/whatever. Protecting my kids from our grown up issues is VERY VERY important to me, because what happened (and continues to happen) between me & my ex is NOT their problem and I dont want to taint their relationship with him. I could tell my kids things about their dad that would make them HATE him but I REFUSE to do that. I just will not.

I was told once by a counselor that when someone puts down their kid's other parent, makes the kid's other parent always seem like the mean one, the bad one, the villian, whatever you want to call it, that the child begins to think badly of themselves, because THEY are a PART of that parent. I dont know if that applies to every kid on the planet in a situation like that, but I know it happens to some of them, and I am NOT doing that to MY kids.

And I dont know about in Canada, but in all the states whose family law I've studied, one way the courts make a determination for custody when there is a dispute is to try & figure out who they think will (as a CP) foster a relationship with the NCP more. Its actually the CP's JOB to foster a healthy relationship with the NCP as much as they can.

Anyway, Shelly can do whatever she wants, as its her child/situation, but she asked for advice & I've given plenty. And I've got a very good relationship with my ex & dont seem to be having the same problems she is having with her ex...so you never know, it might help to take a look at the situation with fresh eyes & try something new....it just might work.

Its really not fair to Jenna to put her in the middle of the ADULT's problems.

its not OK that Aron wont take her in a situation like that, but she also she not be put into the middle.

i completely disagree. i don't think that is putting Jenna in the middle of anything "adult". i think it is the access parent's RESPONSIBILITY to explain to his child why he/she is unable to make the scheduled visit.

you have no idea how many times my ex ditched his kids for a party or the latest gf and i was left holding the bag telling the boys why daddy wasn't coming. well, my boys are now 11 and almost 10 and their perception for a long time was that it was ME keeping their dad away. i was the one calling HIM every few days begging him to see them cuz they missed him. thankfully, we are quite open and they now understand, from both their dad and i, what the reality was. we both love them, we have made mistakes.. it's life.

as for the OP, i agree denying access is the wrong way to get ur point across. i would definitely talk to them about it.. probably separately. i don't think it's right for any parent to talk down to another in front of a child. what are you teaching the child?! tell Aron he can speak to you with respect or not at all. let him know that you won't disrespect him in front of his daughter and he should do the same... and live by it. kids listen even when you think they are not. and for Bea, reassure her you have no interest in Aron other than raising a child together and now that she is part of Jenna's life, you want an amicable relationship. maybe Aron is feeding her a bunch of BS that you are evil or something.. show her ur not. ur just a mom who wants what's best for her daughter.

hang in there, Shelley.

Exactly... it's not putting the child in the middle, it's putting the responsibility on Aron.

Why should Shelly be the one to be always giving the bad news? Aron needs to be put on the spot...and while it may hurt Jenna to be handed the phone and tld that she can't go, it won't hurt her ANY MORE than if it was Shelly telling her that daddy can't take her, yet again.

I say if there are plans that Aron is to take Jenna, then he should take her. Shelly should dress her and get her ready to go... and GO. Then it will be up to Aron to tell Jenna that So Sorry, Can't Take You After All! At least the perception would be that mommy did her part.

It's not putting the kid in the middle... it's making them deal with life, and the realities that life sucks and is unfair...something that they will have to deal with for the rest of their life, and there is no point in sugar coating it - because any wich way you look at it, if Shelly sucks it up for Jenna's sake... it's really not doing Jenna any favors.

In fact, to avoid situations like that, a better thing to do would be to NOT TELL your children they are going with the other parent until right before they get there, or even when they get there.

I do that a lot, too. I dont tell my kids until my ex calls & says he is on his way.

If my ex had a habit of not showing up, I would tell him not to mention it to my child anymore, that I would handle it.

I dont know, I guess I just have a REALLY different way to handle things than some of you guys. I have no reason to make my ex the bad guy to my kids, no matter WHAT he is doing. I always want my kids to love and respect their father, even if he is not father of the year. I dont talk bad about him, I try not to make him the bad guy, I dont want the kids hurt or upset by what he is doing/not doing/whatever. Protecting my kids from our grown up issues is VERY VERY important to me, because what happened (and continues to happen) between me & my ex is NOT their problem and I dont want to taint their relationship with him.

I was told once by a counselor that when someone puts down their kid's other parent, makes the kid's other parent always seem like the mean one, the bad one, the villian, whatever you want to call it, that the child begins to think badly of themselves, because THEY are a PART of that parent.

EXACTLY ceecee I DONT talk bad about him to Jenna or in front of him BUT he talks nasty to me and to me in front of jenna. so why is it i have to be the mature one when he is being the imature one? he is teh one that needs to be more mature to me!!!!

I just want him to treat me with respect is all... Thats not too much to ask is it?

And i have tried the dont tell her unless he is on teh way BUt he doesnt .. he willa sk her days in advance and then say no but refuse to tell her hims elf. And i tell himt o stop but he never does!!!!

I really can't offer you any advice because I have no idea, but I think you should do what you feel you need to do for you and your family!! Its not right that he acts like that and I think its ridiculous how much he changes in the way he treats you

i have ALWAYS showed respect to my ex in front of my kids and have no control over him saying when he will come or not. believe me, i tried. the kids got tired of me telling them "daddy had to work" and wanted to hear from him. it did them no favors that i made excuses. to them, i was just lying. my boys are almost ten and going on twelve so they are more aware of things. their father and i have no issues between us besides his broken promises and lack of interaction with the them. the kids are the ones who want answers. it affects them and i believe they do have a right to confront that. i don't know how that makes me a slandering parent who throws their kids into adult issues?? they are not stupid, they tell me what they see yet i still tell them their dad loves them and tries his best.

i grew up with a mom who thought "protecting" me from all unhappy truths was the best idea. well i grew up and was slapped with every ugly reality my family thought they buried. it was a horrific shock and i completely resented her lies and will not do that to my kids.

Crystal, I think yuo are missing here that Shelly doesn't put down Aron in front of Jenna, but rather that Aron puts Shelly down in front of her.

You mentionned that "daddy will call you later to talk to you". DOES he call them? Aron doesn't. (at least, that's what I get from lal the posts about him...) He seems to just want to prefer being whipped by Bea than spend time with his daughter. Or, to smoke pot.. or just because he's being lazy and doesn't want the "hassle". you said your ex doesn't generally cancel nles he had to... but what if he cancelled because he wanted to smoke pot? or because he wanted to take his current flavour of the month to dinner? Wouldn't you be annoyed? I would...

I'm sure if Shelly and Aron had a "good" relationship like yoiu and your ex, things might be different... who knows!! You're lucky to have such a respectful guy for an ex, and one who seems to actually like spending time with his children. I wish more separated/divorced parents were like that... but in this situation, we have a dirtbag ex who just doesn't seem to care.

Crystal, I think yuo are missing here that Shelly doesn't put down Aron in front of Jenna, but rather that Aron puts Shelly down in front of her.

You mentionned that "daddy will call you later to talk to you". DOES he call them? Aron doesn't. (at least, that's what I get from lal the posts about him...) He seems to just want to prefer being whipped by Bea than spend time with his daughter. Or, to smoke pot.. or just because he's being lazy and doesn't want the "hassle". you said your ex doesn't generally cancel nles he had to... but what if he cancelled because he wanted to smoke pot? or because he wanted to take his current flavour of the month to dinner? Wouldn't you be annoyed? I would...

I'm sure if Shelly and Aron had a "good" relationship like yoiu and your ex, things might be different... who knows!! You're lucky to have such a respectful guy for an ex, and one who seems to actually like spending time with his children. I wish more separated/divorced parents were like that... but in this situation, we have a dirtbag ex who just doesn't seem to care.

ooh THANK YOU ROCKY!!! you just said everything i was trying too...

CeeCee I am sorry this turned a bit ugly. I have tried to tell you in my posts over and over thats its not me doing this all its aron. From day one i have always been the one to say to jenna daddy cant take you even when she was all dressed to go to see him. There was one incident where he said he would take her and even told her and i had her stuff packed and her dressed in her shoes and coat and said dad is on his way and then 5 minutes later i get a call and he says i cant get her bea is sick. So i had to break her heart. he refuses to tell her himself because he doesnt want to look bad to his daughter yet he is ok for me to look bad! I always tell him not to tell her these things UNLESS he is sure he is taking her! She is a smart cookie and i am afraid she will think its my fault. Why is it I have to always look bad when he gets too look like teh best daddy in the world to her?

I dont talk bad about aron in front of jenna or I dont talk to aron badly in front of jenna. I always do not allow marcus to talk bad about aron in front of her or to aron in front of her. If we have issues i have always wanted it to be behind doors where jenna is no where in sight or even ear shot. Aron was doing the same until Bea entered into his life and at first was good but for the past few months he has been nasty to me. talking to me with no respect and in front of Jenna. And now he is allowing bea to do this in front of jenna. The last time i dropped her off I said I love you jenna and she says yeah i know in a snotty tone and instead of aron saying to jenna do not talk to her that way he laughs. I was walking out to the car and through teh window i hear bea says to jenna.. good one jenna! So why is it so bad for me to get respect from those 2? I want them to stop making me out to be a horrible person and i want jenna to not think its me me me!!!!!

Im glad you have a good relationship with your ex and he wants to spend time with the kids but if you have known me right from the beginning and such and what aron has done and tried accusing em of things then you would see my side of things. All i want is them to treat me with respect like i treat them. I let things slide and i dont treat them with crap back inf ront of her i just bite my tongue. And i do thsi because i want jenna and aron to have a relationship! She needs her daddy!

Well, if he cancelled b/c he wanted to smoke weed, I wouldnt know, because I wouldnt ask. I dont ask if he cancels, I am assuming that he is only doing it because he has to, or he may tell me "I have to work" which may or may not be a lie- who knows?

Sure I would be aggravated, but I wouldnt let my kids know about it...I wouldnt show my kids that I was upset, I wouldnt tell them what is going on.

Frankly, there is no law that says he must spend time with his child. I mean I think he SHOULD but no one can make him. KWIM?

Really, the best thing to do if he really does all this is to NOT tell Jenna she is going with him until he gets there, and tell him he must not do it either.

I do have a very good relationship with my ex by most standards, but its not ALWAYS butterflies & roses, KWIM?

I just think there are a ton of ways to avoid the problems she is having, and a ton of ways to deal with it, that dont involve putting Jenna in the middle & letting her know that her parents do not get along.

I think her having a talk with him is a very very good idea, but she just needs to realize she cant control his behavior, and has to find ways to deal with the situation otherwise.

That's just it... she's asking how to handle him, because what she's doing (which is not putting jenna in the middle, not telling her until he picks her up, that sort of thing... ) just isn't working.

I dont think it turned ugly. No biggie.

I know its hard, I really do.

But you've just got to be the bigger person in this. Obviously they are both immature & you cant make them behave like you'd want to. If Bea wants to try & teach your daughter to disrespect you, I think thats HORRIBLE, but there really is nothing you can do short of talking to them.

I def. think you need to have a talk with him/both of them BUT if they arent going to cooperate, you need to find a solution that works for you. Whether that be a 3rd party for pickups/dropoffs, communication only through email, etc...whatever you need to do.

I personally would prepare for the fact that he probably will not listen & that it may get worse.

But always be the bigger person no matter WHAT they do...Jenna will 'get it' when she gets older...she'll see how they act, and she will know you rose above it all. She will get that you were always respectful to her father, that it means that you respect HER for trying to foster the relationship between them despite his crappy behavior...and she will respect YOU even more for that.

I would def. stop telling her he is taking her until he gets there & tell him not to tell her. That should eliminate a lot of the problem. Of course there may be times like the one you said where he is on his way, but #1- if you dont tell her until he gets there, you eliminate that and #2 sometimes those things DO happen (not saying it was legitimate) and even though its disappointing, its also a lesson in "sometimes in life, things happen that are beyond our control"

Anyway, I hope things get better for you, really. Best of luck, I hope Aron "gets it" and changes his ways.