never needed help more then now!, caleb and school AGAIN

There is so much going on here right now, I am about to pull my hair out.
First let me say that caleb had been getting tickets pulled in class. In his school you get one ticket pulled every time you do something the teacher doesnt like, on the fourth ticket of the day, you get a call home to your parents and the fifth ticket is detention. Caleb was coming home with one ticket pulled daily. Mrs. snyder his home room teacher, seemed to be acting like this was a big deal. So we had started grounding caleb for it, well it was happening so often, one ticket a day, that he was going to school from 8am to 430p and then having dinner and being sent to his room till bed time at 7p I was not seeing him or spending time with him. He seemed to be becoming with drawn, and I missed him. So we stopped it. I felt it was happening at school and they needed to address it there if they were so concerned about it.which they really didnt seem to be, becuase unless I asked, they stopped telling me about it. I started to think that one ticket a day wasnt a big deal. He is still an honor roll student, it wasnt affecting his grades.
So that was going on most of the year, then midterm reports came home early dec. and he had an A+ report card all but "behavior" where she gave him an F. so that brought his grade point average down. I was concerned because how do you get an F when only 4 months earlier it was A. I also wanted to know how he slipped that far and no one had called us or talked to us about it. Then his library teacher gave him an F. So I called the teacher and asked for a meeting. I never got an appt. I also called the library teacher (wait till you hear this) the librarian, is a loaner teacher who travels between the 10 elementary schools. he said when mid terms come around, he just gives the kid a grade, they just ask for the teachers to write in something, and he really had no idea who caleb was!!!!! I KID YOU NOT, I WISH I HAD THAT IN WRITING! so I said well why an F then? He said he was sorry. I said caleb reads above average and above his grade level, He said he was sure he didnt deserve that grade then.
So then christmas break came around. I was upset that I still had not been contacted about an appt. and called in to talk to the Guidence Councelor. I asked her to go and see what it was that is going on in that room. I told her caleb isnt making friends, and he is talking like the teachers are constantly picking at him. so she agreed. She met with him, and said he seemed smart, and she said if the worst he ever did was get out of his chair, then so be it. but she wanted to run this test on him, I dont know what its called, but its a test to see how often is he on task, and as long as he scored an 80% or better then he was fine, after that if 21%of the time he was off task that meant he is missing 21% or more of his education and we would talk about that too.
So she left me hanging for three days..in the mean time there is an incident.
I get this email:


There was an incident at school today that I wanted to make you aware of. At lunch, Caleb made a threat to another student. It started in the classroom when he made a comment about a boy and girl who sat next to each other during our spelling review. The little girl took offense and told me. I told him the comment wasn't necessary and thought it was over. Apparently it wasn't. In the cafeteria, he told a student that he was going to kill her. On the playground, he pushed her down and the strap of her shoe was broken. When I talked to him and asked him what he said, he told me what the other student already told me. I told him that what he said could be considered a threat. I stressed how serious it was. If he were at a larger building, it could be a cause for suspension. After I talked with him, Mr. Nickey spoke with him and reinforced that making threats is very serious. I am making the guidance counselor aware of this incident. Please feel free to call for more details.
Mrs. Snyder

So of course I was upset. I asked caleb what happened. He said he was just teasing this girl in class, that she said she hated this other boy just the other day and now she acted like she liked him, and he thought that was weird, and so he teased them. then he said they were in the lunch room, and playing a game they have been playing since the beginning of the year, a game mind you that the gym teacher taught them called Civil war. in our day, it was called slaughter ball or dodge ball, where the kids split into two teams and pelt each other with soccer balls and the kids that are hit are out or "killed". Its war...
so they were playing it in school, and the teacher heard caleb say it to the same girl, and told on him. So they said he was teasing her in class, it escalated to a threat. then on the play ground, they are again playing civil war, the boys love this game, and this girl hangs with caleb and the friends he has..and caleb was talking to a set of twins, and another boy ran by and accidently ran into this girl, knocking her down, breaking her shoe strap..well I have no idea who said it was caleb who did it, but the twins I later found out had gone to the teacher and said it WASNT caleb because they saw it..these twins are notorious for telling on caleb all the time , so for them to stick up for him, makes me believe it.
well in the mean time this has now escalated to teasing, a threat, and a folllow thru. They wanted caleb suspended for terroistic threats.
I went to the school to talk to the priniciple, because I felt that it hadnt been investigated enough, they were not aware of the game CIVIL WAR, and the prinicple told me that! He also was not aware of the twins that witnessed the "push" on the play ground. He was angery at me for pointing this out, and in the middle of our conversation walked out of the room!!!
I was so upset I was reduced to tears! so after investigating further, they find that there were witnesses, and the girl herself admits to playing civil war.
Now I realize I sound like one of those "not my kids" parents, but he really was being branded innocently.
so then on friday of last week, the councelor finally goes to do the eval on caleb.
she doesnt call me till today, she said, she spent 20 mins. with him at the end of the day on friday ( i think that time frame is important). she said she walked into the room and caleb was SITTING ON THE FLOOR! Then she said he wandered around, and then started making noises, he was disruptive and off task. She said it surprised her. she didnt expect to find this. She said she felt that someone would have asked her to eval caleb before this..NO ONE HAS. I reminded her at this point still no one has, it was me who called to ask what is going on in there. she then said that caleb scored a 65% on the test. she said no one scores that low, and has said she feels he has ADHD and anxiety disorder, as well as a compulsive disorder. she is asking we take him to the dr.
I said no, I asked to have him tested again, by someone else, in the middle of the week, in the am. she agreed. but she is also setting up a meeting with social services, as well as the psychologist. I dont really know why.
this is what I am afraid of. I am afraid that when we refuse to allow him to be medicated, that they will turn us into social services and try to say we are not giving him what he needs, and then risk something awful happening in the system. I am concerned they might try to make us medicate him.
I dont know where to turn now, or what to do.
I dont have dr's here I trust. He has seen a different peditrician in his group every time we go, the dr's here are horrible. I dont take the kids in unless its really serious. I havent been able to find one.
So the chances of getting a dr who will really test him is slim to none, plus there really isnt a true test for this, I am afraid any dr will just say , well the teacher spends every day , 8hrs a day with him and if she sees it then its there..
I do think caleb isnt listening, he has gotten away with being disruptive and talking and getting out of his chair since the beginning, and they didnt lay down the law so now he thinks he can push it to the limit daily. I think its her fault for not being firm with him right from the bat. I have talked to caleb, but we cant keep punishing him at home when he is fine at home.
I was also upset when the councelor told me that the teacher has moved caleb to the back of the room, and pretty much just washed her hands of him. so much for his education.
then she told me that during times like circle time, she makes caleb sit out, and told the other kids to stay away from him. and then they wonder why he cant make good friends, and why he is talking all the time, trying to make some friends and socialize.
the councelor said when she asked caleb why he is talking in class, he said well when else can I do it, we dont live in the same place or ride the same bus?
I dont know what to do. I am scared that this is going to get blown way out of the water and that social services will take him or threaten to take him if we dont medicate him. I am totally against medicating him. I dont see how a kid with severe ADHD and anxiety and impulsiveness can sit and watch a 2 1/2 hour movie, or get straight A's.
I am worried that he is being secluded now and branded as a bad kid and isnt even able to make friends, that the teachers are making sure he isnt making friends.
Can you tell me what to do now? Where do I turn.
we can just move him to a new school, because the priniciple is the head of all the elementary schools here and we need his permission to move. I already checked into that. and he wont do it.

First off let me say that I would take this to somone over the principles head.
secound of all, this whole thing is blown beyond out of porportion in my opinion. I'm so over the hyper sensitivity in socity today. no more cops and robbers or coyboys and indians. It's like play them and your gonna shoot somone when your 12. I mean really? There wasnt bullying involved. I gotta get off this one becuase I'm all irritated for you!

wow, Stacy.
Firstly, it's highly unlikely that they can take him from your home for refusing to medicate him, it's not easy to take a child from his/her home and there has to be some tangible risk, like physical/sexual abuse. The system is overloaded and there aren't enough foster homes so taking a kid out of his/her home is a drastic measure and there has to be really good reason for it.
I doubt my opinion is going to be popular here but I think you have grounds to sue the school system as it has clearly failed your son. It seems they've labeled him and seem to want to make the situation easier for them rather than deal with whatever is really happening with Caleb. I'd be getting a lawyer and filing a lawsuit, of course afterward, you have to consider where he'll be going to school. I just feel that they really need to have their feet put to the fire in order to take the situation seriously.
As for the medication and ADHD, really, a psychiatrist needs to make that determination, not just someone who works for the school, unless that person has a medical degree and did his/her residency in psychiatry. ADHD is considered a psychiatric disorder and only a psychiatrist can determine if Caleb has it.
That said, I'd take him to a psychiatrist, NOT a ped and have him tested in a neutral environment, in other words, not at school where he seems to act up and not at home where he seems to behave just fine, the doc's office is an ideal place for this sort of thing.
If a psychiatrist does determine that Caleb has ADHD, I have to say that while I too am not a fan of medicating kids, I have seen it make a tremendous difference to those kids who truly have ADHD. These concerns however, need to be addressed to a psychiatrist who truly specializes in these things. The big problem I see here is that someone unqualified (or so it seems to me from what you've said) is doing the diagnosing.
Btw, theoretically, it IS possible for someone with ADHD to sit through a movie and get good grades. They can hyper focus on things that interest them...it's background distractions that most of us wouldn't even notice that tend to affect them, among other things.
Again, all of these things could be better explained by a psychiatrist and tbh, as I said above, until such a person determines Caleb needs medication, there is little point in worrying about it as it's too soon to tell.
Hang in there, before you wig out too much, let's see if he actually has ADHD...you need to get all the info before you can make a determination about treatment.
I'd kick the school's you know what in a lawsuit, though, as they have not risen tot he occasion with your son.

I think at this point, I have allienated them to the point where they dont intend to help me at all. I am not sure if they are interested in helping caleb or just proving me wrong.
It seems they really didnt want our involvement. I had to call the teachers on what happened, because with out knowing that it was the gym teacher that started the whole civil war thing it did look like caleb had targeted this girl, as a matter of fact it took three days to straighten it all out, and he was grounded the first night and spent the night in his room until we could figure it all out.
I also had a hard time finding out there were witnesses to the other boy who ran into the girl.
Its so frustrating.
Right now I feel like I have to kiss you know what until I can see where they are going with this.

I am so sorry Stacy. I wish there was more I could offer in the way of encouragement. But you need some action right away.

How big a school district is this?
IE" How many buildings, how many students etc. ?

Its a tiny tiny old school there are 28 kids in his class, and only one class per grade, there are k-5 in his school, there is only one building on his street, but there are a total of 10 other schools, they are all tiny and old, I have no idea why, this isnt a big town, its very rural.

Oh man I have so many things floating around in my head about this

#1- Schools should not be "diagnosing" children with ANYTHING.

#2- No one can force you to make your son take medication for ADHD. This isnt like you are depriving him from chemo for a curable cancer.

Are you saying during a meeting with the principal that the PRINCIPAL just walked out of the room on you????

If you want to have him tested, it needs to be by a pediatric psychologist, psychiatrist or neurologist. A pediatrician is legally able to diagnose this, but it really should be one of the 3 types I listed as they specialize in things like this. A pediatrician does not.

I do not think 1 "ticket" a day is really an issue. My son has ADHD (diagnosed by a ped. psychiatrist) and is medicated. He has some behavior issues- he isnt violent or mean or anything, he just gets distracted easily, has trouble staying on task, etc, and can get emotional over things and is not a huge fan of change, he likes a routine.

His teacher is WONDERFUL. The guidance counselors @ school are WONDERFUL. The same can be said for the principal and VP. We've had meetings many times and eventually had to come up with a behavior plan where he gets smiley faces for staying on task, listening, following directions, etc. He can earn up to 4 smiley faces a day. Last week had had 4 all week. Today he had 3. I dont punish him- I tell him that 3 is still good, and tommorrow I would like for him to try harder, and I remind him of the rules. He is also given incentives @ school for getting the smiley faces- if he gets 2, he gets 5 minutes to draw before lunch, if he gets 4 he gets to draw and play with a small toy from home for 5 minutes before the end of the day. It has really helped him to work hard @ doing what he is supposed to be doing to earn the rewards.

I cant even believe what is going on with the school your son attends. Is there no other school for him to attend?? In my city you can attend either the school in your district, or one of the many "schools of choice". I realize this many not be an option for you, but I am wondering if it might bc the educators @ this school...wow.

Also- talk to him every morning before school about your expectations, etc.

Tell him no more "civil war". I agree that schools tend to overreact to that sort of thing these days, BUT, if they have a policy on that or whatnot, you need to talk to your son. They have a "no tolerance" policy @ my kid's school about guns- toy guns, making guns out of objects, etc. My oldest (not the son with ADHD) was playing with his friends outside and they were using pencils as "guns". He was written up for that bc of the policy. I told him he could not do that @ school- it was against the rules. Maybe a month later, the same thing happened and the teacher wrote him up and said next time it would be a detention. I sat my son down that night and had a 30 minute conversation with him about how even though we at home let them play "cops & robbers" type games, let them play with nerf and water guns, they have "space police" legos w/ toy guns, etc, that at school it was against the rules and NOT ACCEPTABLE to pretend to play any game with guns @ all under any circumstances. That he could play all that at home but that he WOULD NOT do it at school and that if he did it again, he would get a detention and now that I had given him a warning he would be punished @ home. We have never had an issue with this again.

So I thnk you need to work with your son, if you think he needs to be evaluated, have it done by the right person...I'm not too sure what else to say about the school right now...I'm pretty blown away.

I'm not sure what to say, but I do know there is only ONE test to accurately assess ADHD/ADD and that is a brain wave test (not sure of the name). I wouldn't accept anything less when diagnosing it. Too many kids are diagnosed with ADHD/ADD and medicated that don't need to be. It's an easy way out for parents, schools, etc to deal with kids when sometimes they just need a little bit of extra attention to excel in school. I would go to every doctor there is in any area around me to find the correct test to have done. If there is not one in your area, go somewhere else. There is only one pedi gastro doc in our area and if we didn't like him we were going to go to Chicago (3.5 hour drive) to find the right one. It's worth it.

I only have girls, so my opinion is limited, but I guess I'm a bit confused. My girls play games like that too and they know the difference between what is acceptable and what's not in school. At home they may use the words "kill you" or something of that nature but they know 100% sure they are not to use words like that in school. Maybe since girls don't play those types of games as often it's easier for them to recognize and understand when and when not to use those phrases, etc. Again, I don't have boys, so I don't know, but I'd think Caleb should be able to understand when he can and can't do certain things like that.

First of all, no one can diagnose your child or even say they think he has ADHD, anxiety, or anything unless they are an MD. The school could get in big trouble for that.

Second, they cannot do anything to you for not medicating your child. It is your choice! I have a son who has alot of issues. He was medicated for ADHD last year, but it made him too emotional, so I took him off the meds. I did not tell the school or the teacher and when I finally told them, I stated that I "did not have to tell them, as it was my choice to medicate or not". They totally agreed.

Is there a special education dept. in this district? Not to say your son is "special ed", but he might be having issues that could be helped with services. That might force the teachers to be nice and give him what he needs.

Has he been evaluated for CAPD? Central auditory processing disorder? My son was diagnosed with this in 1st grade. All along I thought he had ADHD, but someone mentioned this and turned out that is what he had. It can present like ADHD, but it's not ADHD.

I think this school is so out of line by how they are treating you and what they are saying about your son. Does the district have a superintendent you can go to?

Check out this website. http://wrightslaw.com/

This is not true.

>>There is not just one ADHD Tests that can be administered to give an accurate diagnosis, rather; there is a series of ADHD Tests. The symptoms of ADHD can also be symptoms of other things, such as food allergies, depression or anxiety, other specific learning disabilities, autism, dyslexia, hearing problems, early onset bi-polar disorder, Tourette's syndrome, or even Thyroid problems. The first step should be to see a primary care physician for a physical examination. This will help to rule out any thing else that may be expressing itself with similar symptoms as ADHD.

The second step should be to find a mental health professional that specializes in ADHD for an evaluation and to administer formal ADHD Tests. The insurance company should have a list of recommended doctors or the primary care physician may be able to recommend one. Another good source to find an ADHD specialist is to call your local CHADD, Children and Adults with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, office.

The third step is a thorough evaluation of the child/person with ADHD symptoms and a family member of that child/person. This evaluation should include developmental history, and family history.

The fourth step is formal ADHD Tests such as, DSM-IV Criteria (symptoms of ADHD), TOVA (computerized test), WISC-R (IQ test), WRAT (achievement test), or Bender Gestalt Test (visual motor integration test). These tests are all very helpful in diagnosing ADHD. It is up to your doctor to determine which tests he or she will administer.

The TOVA (Test of Variables of Attention) is a very helpful tool, which should be used in conjunction with other ADHD Tests in the diagnosis of ADHD. The T.O.V.A is a 22.5 minute computerized test (visual or auditory), which is non-language based (to differentiate ADD from specific learning disorders), requires no left-right discrimination, and has negligible practice effects. Variables measured by T.O.V.A. include errors of omission (inattention) and commission (impulsivity), response times, and more. It correctly identifies 87% of normal and 90% of ADHD subjects. Also, you can take the computerized test before administering ADHD medications and after, so that the doctor can determine the specific dosage of the ADHD medications and watch for its effectiveness.


There is something like what you are speaking about but there are more than one- a SPECT, or qEEG. But you may want to read this from an article about it

>>The neuroimaging technique that has aroused the most interest among parents of children suspected of having ADD is SPECT. This 20-minute test measures blood flow within the brain; it shows which brain regions are metabolically active ("hot") and which are quiescent ("cold") when an individual completes various tasks.

The procedure entails an injection of a radioactive isotope that is then picked up by the brain. This means exposure to a small amount of radiation - about the equivalent of an X ray. The child lies motionless as a camera rotates around his head. Several scans may be required, at a cost that can top $1,000.

SPECT has an outspoken advocate in psychiatrist Daniel Amen, M.D., of Newport Beach, California. Dr. Amen heads a group of four clinics, which, he says, have performed a total of 31,000 SPECT scans of people with various psychiatric problems.

"Neuroimaging doesn't give you a diagnosis," says Dr. Amen. "It's one part of a full evaluation that you have to put in the context of what goes on in a patient's life." Low activity in the prefrontal cortex is typical of ADD, he says, but it can also occur with schizophrenia, dementia, and head injury. "You can't read these things blindly."

By providing information that is impossible to obtain from a simple clinical examination, Dr. Amen claims, "SPECT adds to the richness of the diagnosis and helps target treatment." The images are useful in a range of psychiatric and neurological disorders, not just ADD, he says.

Michael Uszler, M.D, a nuclear medicine specialist who heads a clinic in Santa Monica, California, occasionally performs SPECT scans on children referred to him by pediatricians and family physicians. He agrees that SPECT cannot be used to make a final diagnosis, but that it adds to the picture presented by examination and other tests.


The less invasive qEEG- gets mixed reviews

>>Researchers have also found distinctive brain patterns in ADD by using qEEG, which, like SPECT, is available in clinics across the country. Unlike SPECT, qEEG uses no radiation; a layer of gel is applied to the head to conduct electrical impulses, and the child dons an electrode-studded cap. For each scan, the child must remain very still for about 20 minutes, and several scans are customary. The cost varies by location, but $500-$900 for a full evaluation is not unusual.


>>Although EEG is used to investigate seizure disorders and other neurological conditions, most experts, as well as professional bodies, such as the American Psychiatric Association and the American Neurological Association, maintain that information obtained through EEG isn't reliable enough to detect the more subtle changes of psychiatric disorders.

More generally, the American Academy of Pediatrics doesn't recommend any lab tests for ADD - making specific reference to neuroimaging techniques, including SPECT, and qEEG. The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry is similarly skeptical: ADD is "a clinical diagnosis," and brain imaging and the like provide "insufficient data."

>>
Others have added to this body of research linking ADHD and brain wave dysfunction. Colby, in the Journal of Child Neurology (1991) reported on the neuroanatomy and neurophysiology of attention. Benson, in the same journal, (1991) discussed the role of frontal dysfunction in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Chabot et al (Clinical Electroencephalography, 1995) found QEEG to be a useful adjunct to behavioural testing and clinical evaluation in the differential diagnosis of children with SDLD (specific developmental learning disorders) and those with ADHD. Discriminant functions that use combinations of QEEG features were found to distinguish these two types of developmental disorders from each other and from normal development with accuracy levels between 85 and 95%.

I'm not saying that these types of tests are neccessarily bad. They just arent the only way. You will notice that I bolded different things, including that a SPECT requires them to inject your child with a radioactive isotope, and also that the qEEG is accurate about 85-95% of the time. You will also see that the TOVA (requiring no test like the above two) is accurate in numbers close to those.

Also- you will see that this is usually NEVER the only or first test done if you read up on the subject, but more of a follow up to the other types of more traditional tests.

Just wanted to reiterate what's already been said: it is against the law for school officials to suggest a diagnosis such as ADHD. The most they can do is suggest that your child be taken to a dr for an evaluation of his "issues."
Your frustration is palpable, and I'm sorry you're going through this. Forgive me, but I cannot remember your son's age. Tbh, it does sound like there has been a massive communication breakdown on the part of the school. For a child's grade to fall from an A to an F with no parental notification is inexcusable. The comment from the librarian would be funny if it weren't so pathetically indicative of his failure to do his job.
It does sound like your son's been branded as a classroom management "problem" and unfortunately, teachers, administrators, and support personnel very often close ranks and back the classroom teacher's assessment. The reason I'm telling you this is that it may not be possible to get an unbiased evaluation from someone in that building at this point. I would seek outside help in the form of a pediatric neurologist or psychiatrist. I wouldn't rely on your regular pediatrician.
I can understand your hesitation with regard to medication, but in many cases, it can be a godsend for kids with genuine impulse control issues and ADHD, particularly with regard to socialization issues. It sounds like your ds is struggling with his peers, regardless of what's going on inside the classroom, which is very common with ADHD kids. The meds may help him control his impulses to the point that his behavior won't interfere with his ability to make friends, kwim? I wouldn't want to medicate my kid, but neither would I want his school experiences to be miserable. One way or the other, you need to find a solution, b/c clearly he's struggling. Why not try the meds for a limited period of time (understanding that it often takes some fiddling to get the right med/diagnosis) and see if there's any improvement? Then you can make an informed decision.
Finally, the state cannot remove your child b/c you refuse ADHD meds. Your parental rights are well protected under the law. Were his life at stake, the issue would be muddier, but we're not talking about that type of situation. This is a quality of life issue, not a matter of life or death. So at least put that fear out of your mind.
Finally, I wouldn't automatically assume that the principal would be resistant to a building change for your son. He may want to send him somewhere else, knowing things have gone so far south with you, the teacher, and your ds. Principals are always looking for the path of least resistance, believe me, and if it makes his life easier, he'll move him. You have more power than you think you do, but try not to go in there with guns blazing and ready for combat.You will immediately be branded as one of "those parents" and things will be much more difficult for you and your son. You can always get more with honey than vinegar, and I know you're rightfully furious, but try to keep the endgame in mind: the best possible outcome for your son.
Best of luck and kup.

I can honestly say you are so right, I am so upset, it couldnt be more evident if my hair was on fire!
I do feel he has been branded, I do feel he cant get a fair shake at this point. I also feel that its been going on, what ever it is, for at least a minimum of 6 months with no one saying a word. I am a highly active parent, who calls, emails, and goes to the school constantly. there was never a reason to not be in contact with me.
He is cont. to get one ticket pulled a day. He is 8yrs old. He is immature and naive. I have sheltered him, probably to much in hindsight, and he is not really a fighter, he doesnt stick up for himself, and he is more the class clown. I talked to him about what we expect, what is going on, and the testing. He knew most of it, apparently the teachers have been discussing him, IN FRONT OF HIM! so he was upset about something he heard.
I know he is scheduled for his second eval in the class room this week. I dont know if these two woman who are conducting this test are specialized in areas? I have however called our "ped". I saw that losely as I dont have a dr here we trust. and asked for a ped. psychiatrist referrel. I hope to have someone else see him.
Right now this is all so new, that the idea of meds is completely out of the question. I will tell you my instinct, is I have spent all that time when I was preg. making sure I ate right, and took such good care of him, and then as he grew making sure he ate and was so careful with vax. and meds..now to be asked to put chemicals in him that will alter his brain scares the heck out of me..
so for now, until I get more info and more comfortable, that is out.
I am still asking the school to meet with us, after the second exam to find out how this happened. I dont know that I am going to get any real answers from them.
I have backed them into a corner, and they are not really being forth coming.
I have tried to make it clear that the goal is to get caleb the best education I can. I dont care blame.
I am not sure what to think of caleb, he seems scattered brained, he is lively, and sweet, and never aggressive, almost meek, we have had problems getting him to stick up for himself. He doesnt harm himself. He wont follow directions, but he is an honor roll student. I would say his school experience to him is great, he doesnt know that things are a mess. I sat him down and told him that we are going to be honest with him and that getting out of his chair has caused him to get into trouble , and he is going to be tested, we talked about ADHD, as our neighbor has it and has talked to him about meds in the past. But honestly since the talk , nothing has changed, and I feel like it was a waste of time, I cant get him to behave at school. I am not there.
I cant imagine the behavior they are describing. I cant imagine it only happens there. I mean if someone told me this story about someone else's kid, I would think man, what a problem kid. There is something wrong with him..But its MY kid.
This is really a struggle. I dont mean to make it all about me, and how I feel either. I truely just want caleb to be ok.

None of this is your fault. Don't blame yourself!

I've had my boys evaluated by a neuropsychologist, for various issues. My oldest was sent to him by the school to find ADHD. The doc. showed me the paperwork from the school to eval for ADHD. The testing took hours, but in the end, no ADHD was found. Only a reading disorder and GAD (generalized anxiety disorder), both of which I already knew just bc I was his mother.

See if your insurance will pay for the neuropsych!

((((hugs)))) Stacy! i am sorry you are going thru this.

i don't know if you remember, but by son James also went thru similar issues with his school. he was examined by the school counsellor, then the board psychologist, then a crackpot child psychiatrist who insisted we medicate. as a parent, you have a right to refuse meds and reject the doctor!! i got a referral from my ped to another child psychiatrist who really understood my son and said the school's concerns about "danger" are ridiculous and they just don't want to deal with my son's problems. it sounds like that is what they are doing to Caleb also.

my advice, document everything with dates and times for all your communication with teachers, etc. don't be afraid to let them know your concerns about the damage THEY are doing to your son (ostracizing him in class, speaking in front of him, accusing without proof or apology, confidence deterioration, etc.) and send it to the superintendent at the board. get as much as you can in writing. they can't lie then... James' school did to protect each other.

and don't reject the psychiatrist altogether. ours really has helped James and without meds! honestly, the child just needed to mature. his outbursts are much less frequent and he seems to understand more everyday.

make sure you have support for you because this is not an easy process. hang in there and keep us posted.

Stacy,
I detect in your post a sense of shame and bewilderment that there might be something "wrong" with your kid, despite the fact that you did everything right during your pg and beyond. I can't say whether Caleb does or doesn't have ADHD or any other behavioral difficulty. That will have to be sorted out by professionals, and even then, don't expect to get a consensus. If you see 5 different drs or therapists, chances are you'll get 5 different opinions about what to do. But I want you to understand that brain chemistry is brain chemistry, and your son is who he is, warts and all. There is no shame in admitting that he might need some sort of help, whether it be meds, therapy, or some combination of the two.
Almost everyone who's met me irl is shocked to learn that I have an anxiety disorder for which I take meds. Tempermentally, everyone thinks I'm incredibly laid back and in many ways, I am. However, I have a very skittish neuro chemistry, just like I have green eyes and brown hair. It's part of my DNA, and I make no apologies for it, but it does occasionally send me off course. I can almost feel it coming it on, and though I know it's happening, in many ways I'm powerless to stop it on my own. I'm an incredibly disciplined person with a tremendous amount of self control, but I simply can't will it away, and I'm telling you this b/c I suspect that's the case for a lot of kids with ADHD as well.
I'm not telling you this to push for meds or not push for meds--I'm telling you this so you stop blaming yourself or second guessing why he's having these issues right now. We parents like to believe that if we "do everything right" our kids will turn out fine, and I'm just reminding you gently that despite our best efforts and intentions, sometimes our kids bump up against some pretty significant problems. It's nobody's fault, it just is what it is, as hard as that is to accept.
I've been through some pretty trying times with my 17 yo ds lately, some that would make your hand stand up, trust me. It sucks to watch your kid take some wrong turns and feel helpless to stop it. But in the end, if he feels loved and supported by you, he'll be ok. KUP

Jeanne, you described exactly how I am feeling. I know that I am not to blame for what has been happening, but I do feel as a nurse, I should have seen some signs that something was wrong, and not to mention also as his mom. I feel like this has snuck up on him, it just seemed to happen in a matter of months. I feel like I want to protect him from the school. I feel like I am in attack mode.
I dont feel ashamed of him, I am feeling like maybe the hopes and dreams I had for him are not going to be realized. I also realize that there hasnt been a definative diagnosis, but more and more I am wondering why he cant just listen to the rules, why he cant just sit in his chair. He is lying to me about what happens at school, even though I tell him I cant help him if he lies to me. He doesnt act out, I guess I mean in a verbal way, I have no idea why he would get up and wander around a class room. I have never seen him do anything like what they are describing.
I have asked our ped for a referral to see a psychiatrist, if for nothing more then to help him resolve his feelings about how the teachers are treating him, and what he has over heard.
I am not sure if there is going to be a way to speak to the teachers at our meeting with out putting them in defensive mode, but I am not going to let them think I dont know what is going on, and I am not going to let them put him in the back of the class alone, and just wander around.

it makes me think of a post here, I had heard a while back, someone who was a homeroom volunteer I think posted about a kid in their kids class, that had a kid that was acting out, and had some disability, and the child was placed in the back of the room, I think in a cubicle of some sort, and the kids made fun of him. Does anyone else remember that? I cant stop picturing that child and thinking of caleb, of what he feels like in class. I have been posting for the past two yrs about how he cant make friends, or at least what I call good friends, he thinks he has friends, but he doesnt. I think the teachers have played a huge part in that.

I so appreciate everyones honesty, and straight talk. This is really hard, to hear any thing negative about your own kid is hard. I just need to mourn and then pick myself up and be a strong mom for caleb and get him what he needs. I know I can, I just cant tell you how hard this is, how the feeling in the pit of my stomach feels right now. My husband is just dead set against drugs, but in my mind I am starting to realize that what ever it takes is what I will get for him.
I am sure dh will deal with this at his own pace.

I think I just wanted caleb to go thru life as easily as possible, I dont want him to suffer or be sad, but I do know that wasnt realistic. I just had hoped. I also dont know why I am nowing sentencing him to a bad life, but its just how I feel.

I think you've gotten some great advice from those who have been there. I just wanted to add some hugs and support.

I amencouraged to see that there are two child psychiatrists here in our general area. I am trying to schedule and appt. just to have some outside eyes take a look at our situation. I also think at this point caleb is feeling "broken" and he could use some reassurance. I also think that as a family in general we could use some eduation in this.
what ever it is.
I am feeling more positive about it today. I know that what ever comes our way, our faith and our drive to be good parents will get us thru this.
Caleb is a smart child, and as my dh pointed out, there are many successful people in the world, and thru out history who learned in an essentric way.
I am trying to stay away from the labels and just focus on what he is telling me he feels like.
I have still not heard when his second eval will be for staying on task.

My neighbors child, who is one yr older then caleb, has spent a lot of time with us, and I have never seen a behavior problem with him. The same school told his parents he was ADHD and he needed medicated. They took him to the pediatrician, and that dr, had everyone fill out a packet, the school,the dr, the parents, and then decided he had it. They then offered her a choice of three meds to chose from and started him on it. He now reports terrible stomach aches. I dont want this to be our situation. I am also a little concerned with the amount of students this school seems to think has ADHD.
we are trying to debate the pros and cons of switching schools right now. What do you think of that idea. I know the obvious is that this school is horrible in my opinion but I am thinking more of what the affects will be on caleb, being a new student and facing these issues, and trying to fit in. I also dont want him to feel he was kicked out or moved because he was bad.

I have a neurologist and he has ADHD, had it growing up too. He flat out told me. And this guy is a top neurologist who other neuros refer to!
Nothing wrong with being alittle different then the pack!

I'd wait until this school finishes evaluating him before switching him. See what they and the psyciatrist you take him to say first.

See this is my issue with how ADHD is diagnosed. Just like Kimberley mentioned her son just needed to mature and he was able to do so without meds and is fine now. I say all this because my aunt's daughter who is the same age as Kylie - well we saw them at Thanskgiving and I noticed something terribly wrong with her. I asked my aunt why she was so quiet and reserved. She used to be so lively, talked to everyone, played with all the kids - acted completely normal in every way. My aunt said the school diagnosed her with ADHD because she couldn't focus at school and they put her on meds and she's doing better in school BUT now the problem is this child goes off and plays all by herself and CLEARLY looks medicated. I was so shocked and floored I wanted to snatch that child away from her and save my little cousin. I know I didn't see how my little cousin was in school, but in every other aspect of life she looked and acted completely normal and her parents said the same thing. It was just she couldn't sit still in school.

oops

This post has been edited by coasterqueen on Jan 13 2010, 08:07 AM

If I were you I'd stay away from medications for as long as possible. Not to scare you, but 80% of the time they leave long term side effects, and I know plenty of people who are victims of that.
He just sounds like a regular 8 year old boy. All the boys I knew growing up in school acted just lke that. His teacher just sounds fed up and stressed.

THANK YOU! I think this is the type of things I need to focus on right now. I think somehow I managed to scare myself into thinking he was going to be a zombie on meds and not lead a full life.

I was caught completely out of the blue with this, and just was blind sighted, but now with the kind words, and encouragement and ready to fight a good fight for caleb.

our meeting is now scheduled for next thursday.
I also got an apology phone call today from the psychologist who said she was sorry, that she was one of the people who talked to the teacher in front of caleb, and she said "NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL IMPACT IT MIGHT HAVE ON HIM IF HE HEARD HIS NAME BEING SAID BY SO MANY ADULTS!)
so that of course inspires great confidence in her psychological education! NOT!
my goal now is to get some independant testing, and find out if this school isnt for him.

Again, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. And prayers too for all the adults in your son's life. Hopefully, they will grow up so he may have a full and complete education.